Paralyzed but Not Defeated: How Geri Carlson Found Hope and Humor After Diagnosis

Brad Miller 0:00

Hello, good people, and welcome to Cancer and Comedy, where we're all about healing with hope and humor. I'm Dr. Brad Miller, and along with my co-host Deb Krier we are around to help the word cancer to be made relevant in the sense that we can move beyond it to have some sense of fulfillment in our lives, and we use cancer sometimes as a standing for any adversity that is out to crush a person, illness, loss, grief, and we hunt for people who are stubborn enough to not give up in life. And today's guest is one of those people. Her name is Jerry Carlson. She's a wife, a mother, grandmother, a nurse turned counselor and an ordained minister, and she has a real heart for people who are hurting. A few years ago, Jerry suddenly became paralyzed from the neck down. Be part of our conversation today, and because nobody really knew why, and she spent eight months in a hospital bed, in and out of ICU, and more than once her family was told to prepare to say goodbye, and the the answer was a rare genetic disorder that we'll get into some detail here today. But they were wrong about Jerry, and today Jerry is walking with the help of a cane and braces, and she hosts her own podcast called Hope Boulevard, which you can find hopelvd.org. Hope Boulevard, and she has a counseling practice as well as an advocate for people in the health world. Her her personal website is Jerry Carlson G E R I C A R L S O n.com. But here's the thing about her: she's an advocate for others, including you, my friend, our lifter uppers to listeners here of the Cancer and Comedy Podcast. And through it all, she'll tell you that she never stopped laughing. She never stopped believing that hope is real. So, Jerry Carlson, welcome to our program today.

Jerry Carlson 1:57

Thank you. I am so honored to be here, and it's lovely to be with you, Brad. Thanks for inviting me.

Brad Miller 2:04

It's a the thrill is all mine, Jerry, and it's my understanding this is the the first first podcast you've ever done. So welcome to the wonderful world of being a podcast guest, my friend.

Jerry Carlson 2:16

Thank you, thank you.

Brad Miller 2:17

Well, we're going to touch on several things here today. They're kind of tough, and some of it's going to be delightful and hopeful. But, but Jerry, let's just kind of start with this. Yeah, you. We mentioned our introduction. You get several aspects about your wife, mom, grandmother, counselor, minister. But who are the people that you're kind of called to serve? The who are people who make you you?

Jerry Carlson 2:42

You know, I really feel called to serve the hurting. I think anybody who is just having a hard time in life, I like to see people do life better. But when people reach a level of pain, a level of hurt that's really difficult to to get past or work through, I really I'm drawn to that. I'm drawn to those people, and I'm drawn to that need. So I love to serve the hurting.

Brad Miller 3:10

And you certainly are doing that with your own podcast now, and you have a counseling practice and other things that you're involved with. And I've listened to several of your episodes. You've got about seven episodes up now of Hope Boulevard, and just great, great, encouraging, hopeful things that you share there about your own story. So, let's talk. Let's talk about your story just for a minute here to kind of set the context of everything. You went through some, you know, here on Cancer Comedy. We talked to a lot of people have gone through some rough things, but your story is pretty incredible in so many ways. In some ways, unimaginable. So take us through this. You something happened, and you found yourself paralyzed from the neck down, and that's just kind of the broad strokes. But take us through that story, especially the moment when things started to happen to go south for you.

Jerry Carlson 3:59

Yeah, I had a procedure. Just everything went well. It was you know a medical procedure. But a couple of weeks later, I started to get weak and fall. And I thought, you know, I had been dealing with some neuropathy, so I pretty severe neuropathy. I thought, my goodness, I-that's really getting worse. And so I really thought it was that. I had no idea that what was triggered in me was this genetic, very rare disorder, blood disorder called variegate porphyria, and porphyria is something that most actors have never heard of, or if they've heard of it, maybe it was a medical school. But to try to find people who know anything about it is pretty challenging, and especially for anybody who suffers with it. For me, I started to collapse, and I was. I would black out and collapse and hit my head or hit my arm or something, and so a few ambulance rides later, you know, my husband and I decided that something is more than this is more than neuropathy, and eventually ended up in the hospital. I started to over the course of just a couple of weeks, I started to lose the use of my limbs altogether and become completely paralyzed from the neck down, and I suddenly became paralyzed, and nobody knew why, and nobody knew what what this genetic disease was. I didn't know it ran in the family. Nobody did, and so it very interesting.

Brad Miller 5:45

What kind of things went through your mind? What kind of things went through your your heart and your soul when this became a reality, especially such a profound physical manifestation? I mean, being paralyzed from the neck down, I I just can't imagine that. But what went through your mind at that time,

Jerry Carlson 6:03

the biggest thing that kept going through my mind was my grandchildren.

Brad Miller 6:06

Yes,

Jerry Carlson 6:07

and how now I'm going to get choked up, Brett.

Brad Miller 6:12

Oh,

Jerry Carlson 6:12

that my grandchildren, because I like to think of myself as a involved grandma, and I just adore my grandkids, as many grandparents do. And so, when I suddenly couldn't move my arms and reach out anymore, I thought, "How am I going to hug my grandchildren? And so, every time some a physical therapist or a doctor, somebody would walk in the door. They would ask me, "So, what is your first goal? I said, "I just want to hug my grandchildren.

Brad Miller 6:47

Yes,

Jerry Carlson 6:48

and they said, "Well, you want to walk too? Well, of course, yes, I want to walk again. But first, let me hug my grandchildren. So that was really

Brad Miller 6:57

you. You literally couldn't use your arms at this time. Is that right?

Jerry Carlson 7:01

No, no, not at all. So I couldn't, I couldn't move a finger. So from the neck down, I was completely paralyzed.

Brad Miller 7:08

Did you have your speech and and your cognitive abilities? Were they pretty clear? Okay.

Jerry Carlson 7:12

Well, yeah. My funny husband would tell you that that was one thing they didn't shut up. Her voice works just fine.

Brad Miller 7:21

Yeah, tell me about your grandchildren. Give me one cool thing about them that made you, you know, this is a motivating factor for you, obvious. Tell me something cool about them.

Jerry Carlson 7:31

I have four grandchildren. A fifth one on the way.

Brad Miller 7:35

Oh, good.

Jerry Carlson 7:36

Yeah, and also two additional little girls that have also become part of the family, but I'll tell you. But at this time, there were just the four.

Brad Miller 7:46

Okay,

Jerry Carlson 7:46

and they've just you know stolen my heart. They're they're adorable and they're smart and and funny and creative. And they're from at the time they were ages three to seven. Okay, and so, but about a year before all of this started to happen, my one granddaughter, at the age at the time she was about four years old, and this was about a year before the paralysis and everything kicked in, and she just one day she was at my house, and I was spending the day with her and her little sister, and she just walked up to me and said, "We can do hard things, Grandma. We can do hard things.

Brad Miller 8:33

Wow.

Jerry Carlson 8:35

And I thought how profound for a little four-year-old girl. But I know she learned that from her mother. Her mother's pretty smart. So,

Brad Miller 8:41

wow,

Jerry Carlson 8:42

I thought pretty, pretty amazing, and that just kind of stuck in my head. But a year later, when all of this happened, that rang through my head.

Brad Miller 8:51

Yeah,

Jerry Carlson 8:52

The entire time I was hospitalized. We can do hard things, Grandma.

Brad Miller 8:56

Yeah. So the words and the wisdom of a little one stuck with you, and sometimes we hang on to those those little glimmers of hope that come in a phrase of a child and things like that. I've got Jerry. I know I relate to you in many ways, but I've got a similar story with my grandchildren. I'll relate it very quickly. People have heard it here, but that is when I was diagnosed with prostate cancer. It was right around Christmas time, and we took our two granddaughters, which we just had the two granddaughters at that time. They were five and two, out to do some things with grandma and grandpa while their parents did Christmas shopping or something. And we ended up at at a McDonald's, and I was kind of a I called myself a grumpy old man because I had been diagnosed with cancer, and that was not feeling bad. But at McDonald's restaurant there on the north side of Indianapolis. They were having fun with chicken nuggets and French fries and everything, and I said something silly like I tend to do, and they had a giggle giggle fit, and the whole place started giggling and and got me giggling too. But you know, my one granddaughter. To me, you're my fun grandpa, and that just helped me to think of that kind of that flip that flipped the switch for me from being a grumpy old man and to want to see them. And I had a vision right then of they're they're five and two at the time. I I wanted to see see them. You know, like when they graduate high school, get married, things like that. So that became part of my vision, and that was my form of wanting the hug. You wanted the hug, and that that kind of thing. And and yet you're in this state. Getting back to your story, because that's the most important thing. You're in this state where you couldn't hug them at the time, and maybe they could hug you, but you couldn't hug them. And and I got a kind of a side issue here, Jerry. You know, I saw the pictures you put on your website-very vulnerable pictures of you and your hospital situation. You were in the hospital. How long? Several months, right? You were in the hospital.

Eight, eight months.

Oh my goodness! And you know, I think you would agree they're kind of tough pictures to see in some ways, aren't they?

They were tough pictures to post.

Yes,

you're right.

But but I appreciate you being vulnerable about that. And but I just want to say that you were in a bad state. You were in a bad state, physical health wise. And and I think a part of it, if I understand your story correctly, is something was the unknown. You were kind of the mystery of the year at the for some of the medical professionals. So, what was that like? Having that kind of that sense of foreboding or unknown and that kind of thing. What was that kind of part of your mental, emotional, spiritual journey like?

Excuse me. That was that was scary. You know, it it was a time that when I entered into the hospital, aside from me stumbling and falling, I had abdominal pain that was getting more and more severe. By the time I ended up at the hospital, once I was at a local hospital, they just said you're too much for us. So I ended up at a tertiary hospital, and thankfully, and that they did very well by me. But it took a long time to find out what was going on because this is such a rare disease. Yes, and so for I mean, I could look back and say that I had dealt with this about 20 years earlier, but I didn't know that it was porphyria, and then and there's no way to go back and prove that. I guess now, sure. But um, but even the whole neuropathy thing, you know, it really, um, I can talk about small fiber neuro, well, small fiber neuropathy, but and there's some talk about whether or not that has some ties to porphyria, but the abdominal pain is flagship to the porphyria world. You know, it's it's that abdominal pain that is. Well, experts say that it's worse than childbirth and worse than kidney stones. It's the worst abdominal pain, and I'll tell you for I I I can tell you that for two months I screened and moaned in the hospital while they tried to figure it out, and the hospital had involved every department except for pediatrics to discover why is this woman paralyzed and what what is causing this abdominal pain that is so severe? And there was, I mean, they were giving me medications that were the likes of end stage cancer patients, and there were some nurses saying this is way too strong. We don't want to. We're we're not going to give you more pain medication, and my geneticist finally contacted them and said, "Oh yes, you will. I prescribe that for my patient, and to withdraw it would be cruel. So you give that to her, and you know, of course, everyone at that point they think that you're going to be addicted or whatever, but you're just trying to survive.

Yeah,

when something is

some relief of the pain,

yeah,

and the pain for that that extended a myriad period of time just had to just wear you out, and others too, for that matter. But in particular, you just wear you out. I mean, you're talking a period of months with excruciating pain, and I'm not going to pretend like I know what you went through, but I do know what it is to have a kidney stone, and I've had that. Wow! And in fact, for I'm just going to hold this up for our YouTube audience. I keep my kidney stone a little tube in my desk to remind me. It just reminds, and it it just reminds me. Never complained about any pain in my life because of what I went through there. It was the pain of that was much greater than the surgery, prostrate surgery I had several years later. But my point is, I've

yeah

you what I went through was for a couple days with that passing a kidney stone. You went through this for a couple months, and and not knowing the mental anguish of that as well. So let's just bring it up a notch here. To when you finally found out what this actually was, you know how did first of all how did you find out then how did you react to that was this a reaction of relief of fear of dread just tell a little bit of what human emotions you were going through when you when you finally found out what was going on

well at first I have to add that my family was, you know, just monumental. I'm my husband is he he wins caregiver of the year award. I say that all the time, and I mean that he is he's the best, and he was forced into an early retirement to be at my bedside and then to ultimately be my full time caregiver for that first year after I came home. But my family was traumatized by this. They were in the hospital. There I am screaming, and if not screaming, moaning. If you know, yeah. But there was so much going on when the when the one doctor walked in and said, "We found it and we asked, "What what was it? and he said, "It's called porphyria, and it's very rare. And I said, "I've never heard of it. And he said, "Well, you're going to spend the rest of your life talking to doctors about it, and you're going to teach them about it because most doctors don't know about it, so that started the search of learning more about it. I was still in critical care, really, for for several months beyond that. My daughter, though, is a research professor, and she documented so much information. She was advocating so fiercely for me, and talking to doctors, and trying to get more information, and you know, just advocating the the medical team talking to them and trying to get all the notes down, and and I mean, to this point, you know, between her and my husband, mostly just getting that information and relaying it because I really wasn't in a condition to do so, you know. And so I think I was so grateful that she took the time to do that-not just to be there for me, but then to do all this additional work for me. Because I look back now, and it was such a hard time that I have pockets of amnesia that I don't remember because you know it was so painful. But I can call her and ask her about the timeline. Hey, did this happen before? After that, and so all that is really valuable. But when that doctor walked in and and he said it's porphyria, and he said it's very severe. You're having a severe attack, obviously, and it was it was a relief. As but then the next follow up question was, what does that mean?

Yeah,

I mean, am I

of course

dying or what's going on? And and he said, you know, I'm going to let your geneticist talk to you more about this, and and she did, and our geneticist was just oh a godsend. I mean, my my family was on the phone with her daily for quite a while, and she also continues to advocate for me. So I'm really grateful for that. But once we start getting the answers, one of my favorite stories that came out of this was once we found out that I have porphyria. My our family is kind of private; we don't put everything on Facebook. But my daughter decided there was so much. All these people were contacting my family to find out what is going on with your mom, Rob. What's going on with your wife? And they wanted to know how. Why am I paralyzed? And what happened? And so my daughter put on Facebook, "Hey, we found out that my mom has porphyria. And has anyone ever heard of this? We're just trying to gather information and learn more about it, and and she said, and by the way, they they want to they're talking about some medication called Givelari, and I thought that was yeah, I didn't know that all this was going on behind the scenes. I was just trying to hope, and but one of our friends saw my daughter's post on Facebook, and she told her husband about it. Her husband, who happens to be my my husband's golfing partner of 25 years, right?

Wow! Why don't one of the connections coincidences happen?

Oh my world

My goodness! Wow!

So she contacts him and says Jerry has porphyria, and so he called my husband Rob and he said, "Dude, you know where I work, right? And he's like. Yeah, I know where you work for the pharmaceutical company, and he said we are the only pharmaceutical company who makes Givelari, who makes the medicine that that you're talking about. And it, we were told, the good news is there's something that we think might be able to help. So far, any of the treatments was not helping, but but I was told that, and my husband was told it could take two months before she could get that medicine.

Wow!

I'm laying there in pain, and I'm like, I need it now, you know. And so, when with my husband's and and my good friend and his wife, they bless her heart. They just he was able to advocate for us, and this was on a Thursday, I believe, and on a Monday, I had the Givary

Oh my gosh!

I needed.

Wow,

and it was incredible.

Wow, it sounds like a really a series of of wonderful events happened once you found out what you were dealing with, you know, and and but I'm kind of just a step before that. Whether you know you went through several months here, were there any times, Jerry, where either yourself, your family, or even some of your doctors and medical staff said, "Okay, this doesn't look good. This may you know when you start to lose hope, or the doctor started to lose hope, or anything along that line. Was there anything along that line, that you had to contend with before you got this news of great relief.

Yes, I was in intensive care, I believe three times altogether, and at least two of those times, my family was told to prepare to say goodbye to me.

Wow!

And um, and it was there was you know, at one point I came home, and I was home for six days, and then it was my birthday, and I all of a sudden had some kind of abdominal pain coming back again, and I said, "No way! And my family said, "We've got to take you to the hospital, and I said, "Oh no, I just got home after seven months. I'm not going back, and so it. But it it got worse, and my daughter said, "I'm not going to sit here and watch my mother die. And she called an ambulance, and if she hadn't, I probably wouldn't be here because by the time we got to the hospital. They arranged to airlift me to to a larger hospital, and you know I'm going to give credit where it's due to Cleveland Clinic, who did amazing things for me. I'm so grateful for them, but they airlifted me, got me there in time, and and it turned out that I had a, I had a. I'm sorry, I just had a blank all of a sudden, but a bowel obstruction. I had a bowel obstruction, and so

oh, so just to throw matters even more complicated, right? Yeah, just like one more thing, right? Yeah. Okay.

That's right.

Oh my goodness. Yeah.

So we so getting mad taken.

Wow. So you had to deal with that, and but here's what I'm hearing here, Jerry. Is this kind of this progression you had kind of about the lowest of the lows? I mean, being you know almost losing your life at your home and airlifted and all that-that's pretty severe stuff. And then, you know, being told, you know, by medical professionals and your family had to be going through incredible time. And those are times when our hope is is challenged. And it sounds like you had a word there from your granddaughter that helped, you know, from a couple years prior, but I know that you also in this whole process have shared that you had a word from one of your a word that changed everything for you from another another doctor. So tell us about that story. Kind of a take us to the next step here about how you manage this, about those particular words and why they mattered.

Well, are you talking about when I was in intensive care? From

the from the geneticist said something, and for she said, "Do you you know we can do something about this?

Well, I know I know that when I was in intensive care. Oh, go ahead.

You said this one thing. You said in your prior hours, you said one person can change everything, and your geneticist, she said something to you that really made all the difference. And I'm, and so I just like if you can recall that story that we shared earlier about how that that person and that word of hope that you really hung onto that, kind of like you did with your granddaughter when she said, you know, you can do hard things.

Yes, yes. So my my geneticist had said after we were diagnosed and I had been paralyzed for a couple of months, and she said, I have no reason to believe that you're not going to make a full recovery, and I held on to those. Words with everything I had, you know, because all I could think of was, "Is this my life? And you know, you you start questioning, like, "What am I supposed to do with this? I don't, I don't know what to do with with this. This isn't my plan. Obviously, God has a different plan. So

Yeah, but her words, her words, and her and her attitude made a big difference, didn't it? It

It did. It made yeah great hope.

So I'm just part of why I'm getting at here, Jerry. With you sound like you went through some really bad stuff, really really really bad stuff. But people came in and spoke into your life, your granddaughter, your husband, your daughter, other people in your life, family, friends, Facebook posts, so this connection with the golf buddy and all that kind of thing, all came into your life and to help to speak into your life in your times of need. And those are some of the human connections that you made. I also know that you know you're a woman of faith, and you've mentioned in your podcast episodes and our conversations how a connection to God on a regular daily basis, was a real part of what part of what kept you going. Can you say a word about that? About the role of a of a daily walk with Godhead in your in your navigating this process.

You know, I shouldn't be here, but God. I mean, those are my two favorite words in the Bible. But God, but God love Him. How many times? Yeah, I mean, how many times have we been at a place that's really hard? I had to look back on all the times that were really hard in my life that God showed up, and there's no mistake, you know. So that to me gave me great hope to say, "Hey, look, I got through that stuff, and yeah, this is the worst traumatic thing I've ever gone through, for sure. And I didn't know if I was ever going to walk again. I just

were able to still be thankful to God, even though you're going through all those bad stuff. I just want to be real with you here a second. If I'm going through this, I've had kind of some of my poor me, you know, you know, pity parties for myself going through my cancer journey. And times that you and God kind of had to have a little heart to heart about what's going on here. Are any times you kind of lost hope, or anything along that line. Tell me about your spiritual walk here, because I believe a spiritual warfare may come into play here as well. But say a word about that.

You know, there were there were many times that I was just every time I'd start to get down. You know, as a pastoral counselor, one of the things that I used to teach my clients is not to allow yourself to spiral down. You know, because once we take that one turn around, don't stop it. Do something. Take action and stop your thought process. Stop whatever it is that you need to stop and and think clearly, and not just emotionally, because our feelings can really fool us. They'll tell you when you're laying there paralyzed. It's like, yeah, I feel bad about myself right now. You know, but there were it was a daily heart to heart with God, and for those months that it was the worst, there were my family had to listen to me just repeat over and over again. Please God, please God, please God. I just wanted Him to hear me, and I knew that I knew that He was with me because in His Word He says that He will not leave us. Yeah, and I knew that He was there. I'll tell you, there was a there was a moment when I was in intensive care. It was the last time I was in intensive care, and I one of the photographs, one of the pictures on my website, show me in a yellow gown with a you know with oxygen wide open as high as it can go, and the nurse said, and I was in intensive care, and the nurse said, "Jerry, we need to, we need to put you on a ventilator. And I said, "Yeah, no, that's not going to happen.

Yeah,

and she said, "We need to. You're not breathing on your own, and it's getting worse. We we need to do something right away. And and I said no. Just give me time. So she comes. She goes out in the hallway, talks to my family. She comes back and she tells me again, Jerry, we have to we have to do this because I didn't sign the DNR, so they needed to do something. So

right, right.

I said, I said, give me five minutes, and she said, "Okay. And so she walked out, and that's when she told my family, "You know, you need to say goodbye to your mom, even even with the vent later. So when she walked out of the room, I just prayed and said, "You know, God, it's been." So many months. I'm tired of laying here. I am. I am so sick. I've been in intensive care before, but I've never felt like this. I know I'm dying. I know it. And if if this is my day to go home, it will be the joyous day of my life. I will get to see Jesus face to face. How can I complain about that? Even though I'd miss my family, I'm ready. I am ready. But if this isn't the day, heal me quickly and get me out of this bed and let me be about my father's business. I really, I'm begging that you do something or take me home now.

Yeah.

The nurse walked back into the room, and she said, "Wait a minute, what? What's going on here, Jerry? Your oxygen is improving. We don't need a ventilator. And everything turned around, and I'm laying there still paralyzed from the neck down. But I imagined myself kind of, I just I looked up to the ceiling and I imagined myself lifting my my hand up and as if to show like an inch and I you know God I was this close to paradise and you yanked me back

there you go there you go anyway well that what a great story any particular scriptures that kind of were a part of this whole process for you that kind of helps sustain you.

You know, it turns out it's really my life scripture, and I'm sure for many other people, Philippians four eight. It's just whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable. If anything is excellent or worthy of of praise, dwell on these things.

Wow! And I love the word dwell to dwell. Yeah, I love the way you put that to dwell. And you and let's be honest, in this situation, Jerry, you had a lot of time to dwell, didn't you? You had some big time dwell time, right?

I sure did. I had that one to just kind of sit. So

yeah, well, I'm just saying that I'm observing, and you tell me if I'm right or wrong. But basically, as far as I could tell, if your body is paralyzed, all you really had was your mind and your voice and your spirit. That's how you had to be active. Is that a fair assessment of where you were at?

That's that's true.

So that dwell time was important there, and and I believe a part of your healing and navigating process. So you mentioned here about your support system, your husband, your children, your grandchildren, doctors, nurses, the geneticists, friends, Facebook, the whole bit here, all that come into play. Your spiritual life coming to play. It seems like you also kind of learned how to ask for help and ask for wisdom, and I guess take it from getting to know you a little bit. Take it, you're a person who, for the most part, you know, kind of likes to think you, before this all happened, you could handle a lot of things in life, right? You felt like you could handle things and take care, take care of matters.

Pretty, I think I was pretty tough,

yeah, and I think you are now. As, but you know, went through this time, you had to reach out, and so that that's good. But but there is a part of the story I just at least want to touch on. I touch on this with most of our guests, and because I think it's true for most of our guests, and and you you that is that we call this the cancer and comedy podcast because we believe that even out of bad times, there can be some things, some lighter moments that can come to mind, and maybe put a smile on her face. Maybe they're not giggle, giggle out loud things like I kind of had with my granddaughters. But was there anything in your experience that was kind of made you smile? They're thinking this is so absurd, or was there a moment, a person, or something that you couldn't help but find a little bit funny about the whole deal?

You know, I mentioned earlier, I my husband is is a funny guy, and we've been married a really long time. We've been married for 43 years, and so I I know that about him. I also know about him that he's very committed family man, and so I I wasn't surprised that he would stand up and you know really be the support system that that he was. And my kids, I mean, they showed up, but I think it's the everyday stuff. It's the there's not a day in my life that I haven't laughed because I'm married to a guy that happens to be funny.

Okay, and so he he he made a part of that part of his therapy with you to make you laugh. Is that a fair thing?

Oh, for sure. Yeah, he did. He tried to make things lighthearted when he could, and it was a and it was it was so hard on him as well. You know, he'd never been a caregiver before, and

sure,

just wasn't an easy thing. It's it's still not really easy, but it's so much easier. You know, so I'm I'm just grateful for his sense of humor, which. Is always a pick me up for me. I think if we can share some humor, I have a good sense of humor, but he's a funny guy. Yeah, so he can say the funniest things and come up with something that is just very, just he'll just find something funny and things that normally aren't funny.

It sounds like that's a part of a part of the attraction there with you and he, and a part of the ongoing part of your marriage that would be there regardless, but was particularly needed during this during this time here. So that it's often in one of our prior conversations, Jerry, you mentioned that you kind of draw a line between wishful thinking and hope, and you even had a name for that. Do you remember the name that you called that in our prior? You called it. You call hope a confident expectation. Yes. So, can you go there a little bit about kind of your understanding about wishful thinking and hope? Kind of unpack that a little bit.

Well, I have. I've really had sort of a ministry of hope for many years. That was that's been a ministry name. Hope Boulevard has been a ministry name for many years, and I've not I'm not a big believer in wishes. I think that's nice when you're blowing out birthday candles, but I think that when it comes to Hope. That's the definition. Is you know the expectation part of it, and that's something that comes to for me. That comes from the promise of God. You know, so long as we serve a God of hope, there is always hope, and that's that's my hope is a real

hope was a real thing, wishful thinking. Just kind of a you know, you know, it's kind of a nebulous kind of a thing, you know. And hope is real, and that's what I'm hearing you say. The confident expectation is that this there's something greater than me that is out there to strive for, and and you know, and it's also about being honest with yourself, and and about with your situation. You kind of have to deal with the brutal reality that you're going through, and still choose to move forward in faith and hope and love.

Yeah

as opposed to what you said earlier about you and your counseling, that you know you try to help people to break that cycle, that downward doom scroll type spiral that people go to, that that's awesome.

And now you do what? Now you're one of the ways that you're doing this now in terms of relaying hope to others is by your own podcast and by your own counseling services. So let's talk about how you give back, and then I also also know that you do some advocacy for for folks and counseling, particular with folks with the ailment that you you have. Say a word about that. What got you? You know what's your what's your motivation? Who you looking to serve with your podcast and your advocacy and and your counseling? What's that all?

Well, the counseling the counseling and coaching is very part time. I'm just getting that started again, but I will say that it's the podcast is something that I just my message that I believe comes out of all of this is that there is always hope, and that's the biggest thing for me. I do do some advocacy work. I'm an ambassador for the United Porphyria Association, a fabulous organization for porphyria. There's many different types of porphyria, and one isn't, you know, any better than the other. I mean, there really there's a lot of suffering in this in this disease. I will tell you that I've had I've gotten to meet some terrific people. I do belong to a support group through the UPA. I also lead a monthly support group for acute hepatic porphyria. That's basically the umbrella, the acute hepatic porphyria and paralysis, and so anyone who's been paralyzed as a result of porphyria, we have a month. You know, the first Thursday of every month, we have a support group, and and I am very grateful that the United Porphyria Association, you know, really allowed me to to get that started because that was something that was near to my heart when I get out of the hospital.

So, and you tell your story on a regular basis, on a weekly basis now through Hope Boulevard, your podcast. What have you learned about that process? You know, what's your passion there to get? What's the overall overriding message of your podcast to people who may be listening?

There is always hope. I mean, that really comes. I think everything for me comes down to that. I think in a world of diminishing hope, we need to really hold on to hope. I mean, and to know and to hear it. And I don't think we talk enough about where that hope comes from. Yeah, I don't. Think that we really are even really cognitive of the fact that could there be hope? I mean, why why do we go quickly, so quickly, too quickly, to the doom and gloom, as you mentioned earlier?

Right.

You know, it's it's very hard to to fathom. But I think just to hold on to that, I, I really think, yeah, I'm a, I'm a really determined person. I am, but I was able to, to really get through what I got through, because of a God of hope, because I believe the words of what my geneticist said that you will make a a full recovery. I might not be walking on my own right now, and and they say I'm this might be as good as it gets. Look, I'm out of that bed. That's that's what I prayed for. You know, I'm out of that bed, and I am doing much much better. So I'm grateful for that, and I think it stems. It starts with gratitude.

Yeah, starts with gratitude, and that that's awesome. Well, just one more question for you. I think it's relevant to our we call our lift rubbers, our cancer and comedy audience, and to the folks who listen to Hope Pull of Fire. And that says, let's just say, Jerry, somebody's listening to our conversation here of the day, and they're crushed by life. You know, they're crushed by what's happening to them. Maybe they've had a cancer diagnosis, or maybe it's something else. Maybe it's depression, or they've lost a loved one, or lost a job, or maybe lost a marriage. Any number of things that had gone on. What would you tell them about being, you know, being stronger than they know? About what can you? What kind of encouragement might you offer based on your experience and what you have to share?

You are stronger than you know, and I know for me, when I didn't think I had any more strength to pull through and to just push on, that's when I went on God's. I just prayed for God's strength, and I will tell you that I really encourage you to surround yourself and depend on your support system. The support system is everything, and I, as I, I often this is one of my passions. I often tell people, if you don't have a strong support system, go build yourself one. Yeah, you can do that, and there are ways to do that. I talk about that, you know, frequently in my podcast or when I speak about building a strong support system and how that works. I'm grateful for be here today. If it weren't for them,

and that might be a first step to take to build your support system. That's awesome. Well, Jerry, how can folks find out more about you, your your counseling services, your podcast, anything else about you? How can people reach out to you?

Yeah, thanks. I think the best way. Thank you, Brad, for having me. And the best way I think is probably through Hope Boulevard, B L V D. We abbreviate it. You're welcome. Hope Hope boulevard.org or Jerry G E R I carlson.com.

Well, I would commend. I've listened to the podcast and kind of got to know Jerry, and what a woman of compassion and hope you are, and encouragement to others, myself included. And love to have you a part of the cancer and comedy community as well as the community you are building at at Hope Boulevard. Well, what a delight it has been to have Jerry Carlson as in our just a real gift you've given to us today, Jerry. And you, I just think you reminded us today that hope isn't just about wishful thinking. It's this thing you talked earlier about about confident expectation. And you were in a hospital bed. You are in dire situations, paralyzed, afraid, not a lot of good things going on, and you learn to lean on God. You learn to lean on other people, people who have loved you, and you love them, your granddaughters and other grandchildren and others. And today, you have been a blessing to people in our audience. So, I just would say to our audience: If Jerry's story spoke to you, go spend some time with her. Get on, listen to her podcast at HopeBolivar.org. Maybe find out more about the ailment that she had, Profaria. And I just want to thank you today for your courage, your faith, your laughter, and what you're ever what you are all about. Our guest today on Cancer Comedy, thank you, Jerry Carlson. We thank you for being our guest.