Navigating Sex and Intimacy After Cancer With Humor and Honesty

Deb Krier 0:00

Hey, there lifter uppers. I'm Deb crear, the co host of cancer and comedy, where our mission is to heal cancer impacted people through hope and humor, something we like to call turning the grim into a grin. Well, today on cancer and comedy, Dr Brad and I are going to have a discussion about something that doesn't always get talked about. And, all right, get your giggles out of the way. That's the humor part of this. We're going to be talking about sex, intimacy and cancer. So now here is the host of our cancer and comedy podcast, Dr Brad Miller,

Dr. Brad Miller 0:30

Hey, Deb, good to be with you here today, here on the cancer and comedy podcast. This is the place where we like to be in community with people who have been impacted by cancer. That can be people who have, you know, dealt with cancer, you and I have are cancer survivors, and could be people who are caretakers. Could be other people who've been impacted by that. Can also people who have been impacted by other things that kind of eat them alive, you know, in terms of relationships or mental health or in a number of other things, but we kind of focus in on here, people who are dealing with with the adversity that comes with this, and how people can handle it with a bit of humor. So we like to call it coping. We're all about coping here, how people gain skills on coping with their circumstances, to deal with the kind of the insanity that happens when you deal with a cancer diagnosis, and how you can navigate that we and we like to say, we like to people, help people cope with hope and humor and to turn their grim into a grin, and then we like To develop a community here. So if you're interested to be a part of our community of people here who are dealing with cancer and other bad things in life with a bit of hope and humor, please check us out at cancer and comedy.com/follow Hey, Deb, as you mentioned today, we're talking about sexuality, intimacy and cancer. And so I got a couple of jokes for you that I just want to share them with you here, kind of based on my experience on this in this area here, and how my wife and I have dealt with, you know, I have deal with prostate cancer, and some of the ramifications are that are things like incontinence and impotence, which are, you know, they're not a lot of fun, but you got to kind of take it, take them a little dose of humor and so. So after my surgery that I had three years ago, you know, there was some adjustments with recovery and impotence and insulin and incontinence and things like that. And it was a little bit crazy. My my wife looked at me and some somewhat intimate moments and said, well, for we did this marriage thing, for better, for worse, right? And I said, Yeah, honey, we did. She says, Well, this is definitely the worst part. Let me know. Let me know when it gets better. So, okay, so, okay. So, you know, we kind of my when we started having, you know, first time, my wife and I, Debbie, tried to get kind of little intimate, a little sexual after the surgery and all that kind of thing. It's kind of like we were, like a couple of teenagers in the back of the car again, except I think teenagers, think teenagers are kind of a little better equipment and not all the paperwork and not all the paperwork and not all

Deb Krier 3:24

the fuss. Yeah,

Dr. Brad Miller 3:24

good. So there we go.

Deb Krier 3:28

I love it. I love it, you know. And we really are going to have a great conversation today, and afterwards, you're going to want to stick around, because, yep, folks, we're going to have another one of Dr Brad's bad jokes of the day. But then, of course, we get very serious with the faith It or Break It segment. Well, we would love for you to be part of our cancer and comedy community, where together we crush cancer with a message of how to cope with hope and humor. Please follow cancer and comedy. At cancer and comedy.com/follow

Dr. Brad Miller 4:00

well today, Deb, we're going to, as you mentioned in our opening, we're going to kind of break the silence a little bit in terms of something that doesn't get talked about a lot. You know, when people talk about cancer or they often talk about the medical part of it, even the emotional and depression and mental health, things like that. But the fact is, it impacts every aspect of our life, including our sexuality, and especially you deal with you know, you and I are both cancer survivors, and as I mentioned earlier, I'm a prostate cancer survivor, you're a breast cancer survivor, and we can say more about that in a little bit here. But you know, those are both areas that kind of involve sexuality and some very real ways. And I was reminded of this. I had a conversation recently that I just wanted to kind of be a little transparent share with you and our lifter uppers about my. Own journey in cancer and intimacy and sexuality, because it was a really important part of what I had to deal with. I we're recording this in April of 2026 and it was just three years ago this month that I had my surgery, and I had rather aggressive prostrate surgery, and that was life threatening, and basically the my can't my prostrate was removed along with some cancerous masses, mass and a rather involved surgery, and but the that was three years ago this month, and so I went back to see my doc. And so, you know, I'm praising God that I was considered clear of cancer after three years. And that's so yay, yay God for that. And celebrate that. And then that's all good. That's all great. And then a week later, I that was with my oncologist, my my urologist, I guess you should say who did the sexual surgery? And he basically, I remember back then, he said, If you don't do anything about this, you've got about, you got about three years. And here we are, three years along, and I'm still here. So so

Deb Krier 6:12

that's and healthy and happy

Dr. Brad Miller 6:14

and doing good and in a good marriage, and even, you know, sexually in a good place as well as you talk about here as well. And a week, week or so after met with my urologist, met with my Men's Health doc, having to do with sexuality and and because two of the two of the manifestations of having your prostrate removed are incontinence and an impotence, and I like to also say insolence, because if you, if you wait yourself all the time, you can't have sex, that kind of makes you kind of mad,

Deb Krier 6:51

you know, makes me mad at me so

Dr. Brad Miller 6:53

insolent. So it's called the three eyes of having prostrate cancer. But so that's so you kind of a grumpy guy when I'm, you know, in that state. But part of the conversation I had with my Men's Health Doctor brand, first time I actually met with him, my old doctor had retired anyhow, and we began the conversation about what I have been doing for my impotence issues, and they involve the injections, and that's not a lot of fun, but we had a conversation about the possibility of a penile implant. And, you know, be honest with you, they didn't throw me a whole lot either, but that was kind of a Yeah, so, but we had that conversation, and it made me kind of think about Deb, kind of the journey that I had in this whole deal regarding because for me, I'll just say it for me, and I think probably I'm gonna say the majority of guys that go through prostate cancer have to deal with some form or another, with this deal of sexuality and masculinity and emasculation and things of this nature. It's not just a physical thing. Is a emotional and virility type of thing. And when I was I was first, first diagnosed with with first flag for cancer just a month after I had retired after and I was age 62, years old. And basically one of the things that I was really looking forward to in retirement, I felt pretty young, pretty good at age 62 get ready to retire, and was traveling with my wife and doing lots of things together, and and sexuality was a part of that. And I even thought, you maybe that might even be a you know, more,

Deb Krier 9:01

increased and

Dr. Brad Miller 9:03

crazed him, and, you know, more opportunities. So what have you,

Deb Krier 9:07

and I

Dr. Brad Miller 9:07

just kind of look forward to that as a part of the whole kind of retirement deal, feeling relatively young and and and engaged and the whole process. And Debbie, wife was in agreement with that, and look forward to that she's a few years younger than me and and so just, you know, was really something to look forward to, but, but I knew where I do, you know, I've been around enough people in my life who've had prostate cancer to know that, you know. And I also thought about prostate cancer, it's kind of the old man's disease. I didn't feel old, you know, like guys in their 70s and 80s or whatever, and but no, it happened to me. And of course, I knew right away. And the docs told me right away, you know that if you do have the, you know, if you do have the surgery, that impotence and and incontinence are a part of this whole deal, and you got to figure. Out ways to to navigate it. And you know, Deb, that did not excite me one bit. You know, that did not so that got my attention right that be honest with you, in many ways, I just really bugged my wife, Debbie, a lot. In many ways, that became my obsession almost more than the actual physical disease of prostate cancer. And as I said, this is not like, you know, there's various levels of prostate disease, just like breast cancer, other things, like Ed and I had a pretty aggressive form of it. And you know, if I didn't do anything about it, I was going to be in real, in real trouble. And kind of the bottom line is, i it began to really mess with my head, you really did, and my own sense of and I kept putting it off and putting off any decision regarding surgery or radiation or other things, because the third option was to kind of see how it goes,

you

know, kind of a wait and see approach. And I thought maybe might do that and but make it more evident that really wasn't the best option, but the but I also talked to some, you know, I'm a Research type of guy, as you probably know a little bit about me. That way, I do like to read and research and and talk to people. And I did the research and I saw what the options were, not only in terms of the prostate cancer, in terms of the medical part, but also about the incontinence, and also it's certainly about the impotence part of things. And those didn't look thrilling to me either, the options that way. And then so then I also did talk to some people I knew, some friends and acquaintances that I knew over the who dealt with prostate cancer, and there was some mixed, mixed, mixed bags of things, but a couple of people I talked to had had prostrate surgery, like when they were in their 50s, and a couple of them told me that basically their sex life was over when they were about 55 and, and

that's hard for that guy to deal with. I,

you know, I just like, wait a minute, you know, you know, just, just, just like, This is not what I signed up for here, and that got my attention. And, you know, they they were handling things in their own way and to and I know some really good friends of mine, and I was kind of surprised be honest with to hear that, you know, because I kind of had some frank conversation. Hey, tell me how it went. I want to know it all. I want to know the whole thing. And they were honest with me, share with me. But when they said their sex life was basically over. My heart sank. Deb, right? I mean, it was, you know, it deflated me in a level that really affected my mental health and my psyche and their things like that. And because I was just thinking, you know, okay, part of my thought process, and this is, this is going to sound very shallow. I'm probably very, probably very, you know, man like or whatever, or guy talk or whatever, in the sense of it. I thought, well, if I can't have sex, what's the worst? What's worth living for? You know? And this is kind of what I was thinking

when you're What about eight,

yeah, that's right. And I just, you know, that's right. And they get thrown on top of that being, you know, wearing a diaper all the time. That was just like, okay, you know, let's just go back and just completely it had to do with some masculine stuff and emasculation and, and, you know, taking away your manhood, and, you know, some weird thoughts, you know, about all kinds of things along that line that I started, my mind started playing, you know, just going some dark places and and it was a mental health deal. And I all the time we're going through all the tests and so on, you know, having to do with when you're going through the cancer diagnosis and trying to decide what to do. And my wife, Debbie, was super supportive of the whole process. But you know what she kept saying, Deb, she kept saying over and over again. She kept saying, Well, you know, you can't have sex when

you're dead, and I'm sure she'd much prefer that she has you into your 90s. And

it was basically that, you know, but that

was,

it was, I appreciate her so so much, and she's been so supportive through the whole process. And I've been married for, you know, 34 years now, and I know you've been married for a long time and and to your husband, Tom and and then, but that she said that over and over again. And sometimes I needed to hear that, sometimes I didn't want to hear that at all,

right?

And so they processed and became, you know, okay, I had to get my head around this, literally, you know, just. Come to terms with it. What if I, you know,

do well,

I have to live with this, or find other ways of being intimate, or whatever it would be. And none of it thrilled me. And I think a lot of guys go through this, but a lot of guys don't talk about it or and not every you know, urologist or oncologist deals with this kind of thing as well. And you know, there are men's health, you know, Men's Health doctors sexual, male sexuality doctors who do deal with this. But you know, there's, it's something you got to process. And then then I had to deal with, so I did go through the surgery. And then, you know, was, you know, basically asexual for many months during healing and that kind of a thing. And that was on a lot of fun, and then during the process of getting re acclimated to some sexuality, it meant a lot of conversations with my wife, and a lot of kind of experimentation. And also involved, you know, various processes that many men are familiar with. You know, a pump thing, which I hated, and a process where, you know, you actually gave yourself injections in your penis. And that's, let me just tell you the first time that happened that was scary, first time. No, I did it, and they've been doing it, but they but it just was a, yeah, it was not, you know, that's not really, it's not fun, and you do it, but it's kind of like you do what you got to do, and then now we've come around. Just recently. The conversation we had this month with my mental doctor, was the possibility of a penile implant, which, you know, I won't go into great detail, but, you know, it basically, they put in a tube in there, and it's inflated, you know, you inflate it manually, and it's just kind of A, it just all sounds really weird and just artificial.

There's like, no spontaneity,

yeah? Well,

that's,

that's a part of it, and you kind of have to, you got to plan it and and now I just want to say to my wife, has been terrific through the whole process, but, you know, I've come to terms with it in lots of ways. And though this is kind of a new reality, and we talk about that fairly often here, about kind of a new reality you deal with when you have cancer, and that's kind of been my reality. And we're now at the place three years after my surgery, where, okay, we got to move on to, if I am going to, you know, be live my life moving forward another you know, I'm 67 now, and move forward, I feel like I still want to be a sexually active person, you know, as long as I can. And you know, this is kind of a next, next step. And so that's I'm in a much better place than I was, but it may be kind of replay where I was three years ago, kind of almost rejecting out hand. You know, I don't want to do this surgery. I don't do anything to now. I'm at a different place and a better place, but now I have another hurdle to go through about the possibility of implant surgery and everything involved with it. So I just wanted to share my story with our audience. There a little bit of what I've been dealing with and for us to have a little bit of a conversation about sexuality and cancer and and so I'm gonna just turn over to you for I didn't share anything you want to react to my story or anything else you want to share.

Well, you know, it is. It's such a profound change that happens. And I think so many times people think, Oh, I'll have the surgery, I'll have the treatment, and I'll be done. And with many cancers, that is what happens. But with, you know, surgery, breast cancer, prostate cancer, things like that, it's not, you know, there are things that you know change your life forever. And I shared this before we started, many years ago. I worked for the American Cancer Society. And one of my jobs at that point was writing the monthly newsletter. And of course, you know, they have cancer or prostate cancer awareness month. And so I was interviewing several different gentlemen. Now I would have been in my 20s when I was doing this, so I'm in a restaurant interviewing this, this nice elderly man who was quite he very loudly and very proudly proclaimed, I'm not impotent, right? The whole restaurant turns and looks, and I'm sure they were thinking, Okay, who is she? And it was just like,

Oh, I get it. Okay. So the you as a younger woman and this older guy, okay, I get it now they're a little bit, a little

bit, yeah, he was old enough to be my grandfather. And it was just, it was the funniest thing. But that goes to show just how important it

was. I

mean, you know, he. He was very proud of telling the world, and, you know, and but I think, you know, we do, you know what? We focus on the cancer, we focus on healing all of those things, and we forget all of these other things. So, you know, when I was first diagnosed, I didn't have a lump, a bump, or anything like that that could be removed, you know, I could not have a lumpectomy. That was just not, not what was there. So my only choice if I decided to go forward with surgery was to have a mastectomy. And I, you know, I decided at the time I would have a double mastectomy for several reasons. I didn't want to be lopsided, right? I didn't want to worry about the cancer coming back in the other side. And I thought, let's just, you know, do it all together. The entertaining part about that was the insurance, right? So I was having what they consider a prophylactic mastectomy, which means it was not medically required, and so it was not covered by insurance. Oh, goodness, what was not covered by insurance was just a very small part. And so we had to pay $750 it was the funniest thing in the world, because everything else was part of the whole surgery, right? And so it was just the actual removal of that one side that it that we had to pay for, you know. And I decided, you know. So I would have been in my early 50s, you know. And like you terrific, terrific support from my husband and but I had decided not to have reconstructive surgery. Part of it, I thought, I'm old man who wants to do that. But I did meet with a plastic surgeon and discovered that the surgeon I was meeting with was the surgeon who does, shall we say, the bosoms The Housewives of Atlanta, right?

Okay, yeah, all right,

nice, nicest doctor's office I'd ever been in. I mean, you could tell a lot of people paid cash, and so, you know, I was talking to him, and when you have reconstructive surgery, there's several things. You know, there are obviously implants, which can be saline, they can be chemical. There's several different things. And I didn't want that at all, because I've always heard bad stories about that they rupture, they cause other cancers, all sorts of things. Now, the majority of time, there's not a problem, but, you know, sometimes there are issues. And so what I was exploring was using my own body fat to reconstruct, right? And so at first I thought, Oh, cool. I'm gonna have lipo at the same time, we would have taken the the fat from my stomach, from that, you know, the little, little spare tire that we all get when we're a little bit older. And so I wasn't, I was, you know, not opposed to all of that. The exam for that was strange. He was now, he was incredibly professional. There was obviously a female in the room with me, you know, all sorts of things. But he literally took a pair of calipers and measured how much fat I had,

wow.

And

I thought, I am not doing this. And, you know, and, and, and I've been through the complications that I I had had, and so that was not, you know, not, you know, I was not afraid of the surgery or anything like that. Um, but, yeah, it was like, No, um, lipo or not. This is not what I'm gonna do, you know. And the other thing with reconstructive surgery, so when you have a mastectomy, you literally go down to skin and bones on your chest. That's it, you know. And so for those of us who have had, you know, especially double mastectomies, a lot of people refer to, to, to themselves as a flatty, right? They have, they have no bosoms, no boobs, no whatever. And so, yeah, I mean, it's just totally flat my stomach sticks out further right. And so you but if you do reconstructive surgery, you and they do tell you, because this was one of the things that somebody asked me multiple times size, right? And

so you basically choose, I'm just curious now you get to cut it. You get to choose your size,

right?

All right?

And, you know? And the doctor said that that is the question he always gets. And he said, No, your body is made for a certain size. And so they they try and replicate that. And they said, usually, you know, if you go, he said, If you go bigger, you're, you're because these implants are heavy, you know. And and so he said, you know, if you go bigger, your body is not going to like that your back, especially because the muscles in your back, you know, are not going to like he said, obviously you could go smaller, which I know people who have done that, they you know. So it was. It was, in essence, a breast reduction type of thing. But, you know, and, and, but you also have what a friend of mine very fondly called Barbie boobs. And if you think of Barbie, Barbie doesn't have nipples, right? And so, you know, it's like and, and I actually know someone who had, and I didn't know this existed. She had cadaver nipples. Okay,

that is, I do what I'll be I gotta say, Okay, wow.

And, you know, and, but I mean it for some people, that is very, very important that they are, I was gonna say life, like natural. That's the right word, and, and so, yeah, that, Oh, that was definitely not something I was going to consider. And, like I said, I'd never heard of it until she told me she had had it, but, you know, and, but the thing to remember is, when you have implants, the sensation is gone. There is, you know, there is no sensation there. And that's especially important when you are, you know, intimate, there's nothing there. And so it's not that, it's a source of arousal or, you know, and and so, you know, but yeah, so I decided, no, I'm just not gonna mess with any of that. And now I do have prosthetics, which are just absolutely hilarious. I have several pair because, of course, you need,

okay, well as just an ignorant man here. How does that work? I don't

just and so I have a pair that insurance paid for. It's really funny that insurance will do this. And so you go and you meet with these very nice people and and you get these faux boobs, right? That are, you know, they're plastic. They actually do have nipples and, you know, and, but they were heavy and they were hot, and so they stay in the box. But I went to a company called knitted knockers, and it's a nonprofit organization, you know? It's a organization, and they're just basically little pillows, right, you know? And so then you, you, you should use what's known as a mastectomy bra because it has pockets and you put, you know, whatever you know. I know people use socks, you know, whatever it is that you're using in the pocket, because things can move, things can migrate, and so you want them to stay where they're supposed to stay. I remember a friend of mine was she had a double mastectomy, and she went swimming with her implants, and she said she looked up and floating past her in the pool.

Oh my gosh. I've ever some visual images here that are just killing me. And

knowing this person, as I do, I thought, oh, dear lord. Um, but, but, yeah. And so then you start tying all of that into intimacy and sex, and it's definitely a challenge, right? You know, do you want to stop and say, excuse me, I need to put my boobs on. I need to take my boobs off, you know, and and all of those things, and not having the sensations. I mean, you know, I think that is, is something that's that's really big, and then there are just all the other physical changes that are going on in your body, you know, and knowing how you look. I mean, you know that was, I was not somebody who you know was or is, you know, my appearance is not something that's important

to me,

but you can also understand over some people, the vanity part is very important, you know. And just

when you look in the mirror, you think, Oh, my God, you know, these are not small incisions, you know, each one is half of your chest, and so these are eight to 10 inch incisions, you know, and, and, and then, you know, I had complications. And so I have incisions on my incisions, you know, and, and when I look in the mirror, I go, I mean, I know that my scars have kept me alive, but I also know that someone else could look and go, Oh, my God, that's horrendous. And of course, the thought is, is my partner going to think that same thing?

Well, just go there for just a second. Whatever you feel comfortable with, tell me how Tom has been supportive of you, or how that's gone.

You know, it's, it's, you know, like many couples who have been married, come go, and there have been changes in a variety of ways, not the least of which is just, you know, getting older and you know. But I think for women, the intimacy part is what's more important, cuddling the hand, holding all of those various things, you know. And. And, but it is something that is very important. I mean, you know, you you mentioned, you know, meeting with a specialist who to discuss this,

right?

We don't talk about it anyhow. I haven't with my primary care asks my care doctor. None of those have ever said, Hey, what about how you doing with, you know. And, but I encourage women, no matter what you're feeling before and after all of this, to talk with your doctor. I mean, you know, the medicines that we take and might take for years, maybe forever, are going to change things that happen in our bodies, you know. And, and, like I said, we're getting older, right? Some things just don't work the way they used to, you know. And, and so it is something that I think is very important to discuss with your doctor, you know, and, and, and if it is something that, you know, I mean they they have counselors and people like that, who very specifically will help in in things like this, because maybe, maybe your doctor's a man, and you're not comfortable talking to them, right? I mean, you know, in and same thing with a man with prostate cancer, you might not really be comfortable telling a female

care

provider something about this and, and so, you know, it's important to kind of look at all of that. But, you know, I think, I think that the thing is to conversations. I mean, that really is how you're going to get through this.

There's

your here's your medical conversations with your docs or other professionals, and then here's your conversations with your spouse, and kind of, and kind of with yourself, in a sense, you know, your self esteem, that type of thing. There's the clinical part, is part of it, and other parts,

yeah,

yeah, you know. And you and I are both very fortunate that we have very supportive spouses. But just imagine if you or I were in the dating world, how the hell a potential partner,

yeah,

and, and I'm really glad I don't ever have to deal with that, right,

right, right? Well, I think, and in some ways, also Deb, I think it kind of really deals with some fundamental questions, you know, am I still a man? Am I still a woman? You know, what? About my identity, masculine or feminine, and your kind of, your thoughts about gender and that kind of thing, and desirability, and you know, manhood, womanhood, all that kind of stuff,

right? And for women, their breasts are more, shall we say, visible to the public, right, like with your clothes. You know, I cannot wear now, you know I was, I was not overly endowed before any of this started,

right?

But you know, you can't wear the deep cleavage type of things, which is why that friend of mine had implants. And then, you know, the cadaver, yeah, contribution, because that was very important to her, how, you know, her appearance was very important. And I don't ever want to downplay that, because for for many people, that is extremely important, you know, and, and, but you know, it's, it's also important to go through it and think really through the process, you know, I want to, you know, I had somebody say, you know, the thing with implants is, the day you get them, they're going to be the exact same as the day you Die. In other words, they don't droop, they don't

how because they are, they are artificial, or they are

and so they're just gonna be there, you know, poking out. And so that's kind of a weird thing too, is thinking, okay, you know, am I going to be a 90 year old with really perky boobs? I

guess so. I guess so. I did. I did see a Facebook post recently of someone who had had, I think, double mastectomy and, and she was celebrating, you know, I'm going to be, whatever it was, 48 and I'm also celebrating my birthday. I got, you know, I'm going to have, you know, my first reconstructive surgery. And she kind of was putting it out there, hey, celebrate with me and water and that, you know, that's, I think that's cool, too, in its own way. And then people need to do within their own, own ways. So you have any thoughts about how people both, you've already mentioned a couple of things here, I think, but how women can deal with this, but how they can also, you've mentioned intimacy few times, how they can kind of navigate that in with our partners and things like this, any just suggestions for people, maybe, kind of in our audience might be looking for some tips here.

I mean, really, it comes down to being open and having those discussions, you know, and, and, and it's part of it is your partner. I mean, you know, we hate to think of it this. Way, but did they marry you because they really liked the girls and, and, you know, and, and, you know, if you're not feeling particularly sexy that day, then you know you need to and, and, of course, there are, you know, there's, you might say, you know, hey, I'm always gonna have a top on

how

you know and you know and, but, yeah, it's about having those communication that those discussions,

I think he also sets up, I think is very valuable, important, and I've, frankly, have had to learn myself, and that is the value of for us. It's the value of cuddling, you know, the value of just, you know. And it's not always, you know, the goal isn't always, you know, the sexual act it is, you know, cuddling and intimacy that has value in and of itself, you know. And so that was becoming more and more important to Debbie and I, and that's important part of our life together. And

I think

Speaker 1 36:02

Keith,

Paul, you mentioned spontaneity is gone. Yeah,

you know, I'm

doing you how to plan it.

I won't, I won't get all the details. But it always, these days, it always involves a needle with me, and that's that

takes.

That's a, you know, I got a ramp. I got a ramp up to that. Let me put it. And

it's like somebody who has, you know, Ed has to take the blue pill, right? Yeah,

and then when you, you know, I can't, here's my thing, you know, if we talk about cancer and comedy here, whenever I think about, you know, the with, with the PI implant, involves a, literally, you pump it up. And so I can't help you think with the alternative life thing, I want to pop you up, you know. So, you know, I just can't help but think about that, you know, that kind of thing. And just, and my Debbie Meyer, we have a lot of fun with this, so, you know. But involves the intimacy of communication as much as anything else, talking about it, working through it, you know. And that's part of the joys of being married for a long time. And but if you, if you don't talk it through, you got to have this, I think you got to have this conversation with your spouse, your with your, you know, your significant other, and also with your docs and other people that you are working with. And then I also think you mentioned it, and I you know, we'll, maybe someday we'll talk to someone in that position. But if you are kind of in the dating world or whatever, that's going to have to be a part of a conversation there too, you know, kind of prior to, I guess, anything happening. So there's some realities. There's some new realities that you have to deal with. And you can't, you just can't avoid it. You know, you really can't. And you got to some at some point, you have, have to have it. There's one other thing I talked about before we kind of move on or close our conversation. I think depending on how bad your cancer situation is, there's kind of a shift here, for some people from and there's a shift from when you're healthy and things going well, you kind of have the partnership and intimacy of that. Then when someone has cancer, somebody becomes the caregiver, you know,

Speaker 1 38:23

right?

And you know, if I'm the one with cancer, my wife was the caregiver of me for several months. And then you, as you try to transition into more of a new normal, including sexually, you kind of transition from the kind of caregiver, care being cared for relationship, because you're weak and everything else, to back to being lovers again, and that kind of a thing and so, and that's kind of a roller coaster ride in and of itself. Would you agree that that's part of it?

I mean, you know, when you help that person shower and clean up after themselves, right? And things like that, it changes things. I mean, you know, it's very strange. And, you know, it just, yeah, it's it, you know, things have changed. And I think also a lot of times they're worried that they're going to hurt us. You know, even, you know, a long time afterwards. I mean, you know, because of the surgery, my shoulders always hurt. I mean, you know, those muscles are not there, and they're changed. And so it's, you know, okay, well, hey, that looks like a fun position, but is that going to

hurt, right?

You know? And, and same thing with, you know, hey, what if we bend the wrong way, right? And there's, there's all of those concerns. And, you know, I think the thing though, that we're really kind of pointing out is, not only do you have to have communication, you got to keep a sense of humor. The only way you're going to get through this.

Well, there's funny thing we deal with sometimes, and you've learned about this and the when you deal with the impotence world, you know you can have the opposite of. Explained me and those, if you do things wrong, you could have an erection last several hours and you got actually, that's a problematic thing. And so we've had to have that discussion. And there has been, Debbie seen some things on TV, some TV shows have dealt with that here recently, I forgot the one called the pit, or something like that, where they've dealt with and just she discussed that with our doc too. You know, she, because she goes, you know, what do you do? You know, because I think,

I

think it's, I think it's a reason to celebrate myself, but what are you gonna do? But, you know, but you know,

while it's like, okay, no, this hurts, no,

yeah, but there's, but there's new there's new deals, there's new things to deal with, and there's more you know. So there are several things you're dealing with here. Maybe we can kind of put a bow on it this way. You know you're dealing with with cancer, you're dealing with things like your mortality. You know you're doing life and death issues. But in sexuality, you're dealing with, you know, one of the greatest, you know, pleasures and delights in human experience, and that's in some cases, threats to be taken away from you. And then you're also dealing with kind of gender stuff, and, you know, womanhood, manhood, that kind of thing. And the inner, you know, the interplay between those and a lot of this has to, you know, so you're dealing with some intense things is part of what I'm getting at. And, and I think the idea always, you know, if it's a spiritual thing, you got to deal with God on the other speed, if it's inefficient with your spouse or certificate that you got to deal with it and not ignore it. You got to deal with it and and deal with it. And I think, and if we, you know, I think there are some ways of dealing with conversations, one of them and resources as well. And ask your doctor. They may or may not want to talk about it, but asking for resources in this area. And I think one thing is, we, I want to kind of get it this way, as you've mentioned at that point, you got to take this whole thing with a sense of humor to even to the bed, even to the bedroom, right? You got to just say, Okay, this is kind of playtime. We're experimenting. You know, we are. You know, laugh about it. You know, if it's not working, right, kind of laugh about it. And, you know, be gracious with one another. Care, let a deep love of a body and emotion and intimacy, as you have said so many times here on our conversation today, rule the day over over, the sex act, for instance, and that kind of thing. So

Right?

Well, I think I want to thank you for allowing me and our lifter uppers allow me to kind of just share a little bit about my experiences and kind of where I'm at. And I thank you for being, you know, vulnerable, to share about it as well. And I think we want to make ourselves available to our lifter upper audience, to say, you know,

hey,

talk about it. We're here to be helpful. So anything else you want to say to kind of wrap up our conversation here, Deb,

oh, you know, I have to admit, when you said, put a bow on it, I remember. And so now this, this, you know, we have someone who, he's an emcee at a lot of events that I do and, and he has homespun comedy, right? And so he was talking about, you know, he went out and got a little drunk one night and came home and he passed out. And for whatever reason, his wife tied a little blue bow, okay? And, you know, and, and, you know. So he wakes up the next morning and he looks down and he says, Well, I don't know what happened last night, but we got first prize. Yeah, well, that's a great way to end our conversation. And

thank you, Deb for sharing.

I love it. I love it. Well, do you have another one of your bad jokes of the day?

It may not, may not be as good as that when you just laid on us there, but we'll give it a shot so

it's.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai