Why Taking Charge Matters: Nancie Steinberg’s Lessons from Her Cancer Journey

Hello, my good friend. Welcome to cancer and comedy. This is the podcast where we look to offer a sense of changing the grim of people impacted by cancer to the grin of a fulfilled life. We like to offer cancer impact to people and people with other debilitating situations in life, a sense of hope with humor. We love to talk to people who are doing something good in their life, to help people to manage this and to cope with things. And today we're talking with Nancie Steinberg. Nancie works in the healthcare world as a healthcare communication specialist in public relations, media relations for hospitals, biotech firms, pharmaceuticals, life sciences, healthcare companies and the like. But she also has a background herself in some dealing with some profound medical situations, as well as in her family, and that she brings that experiences to bear in her work. But Nancie, welcome to our conversation here today, my friend.

Thank you. Thank you, Brad. Nice to see you on this gloomy, rainy day,

Indeed, indeed, anapolis, and it's raining in both places, so hopefully we can get on with a better spring day. And but since joy to it's joy to talk to you Nancie about some of the things you've had experiences in your life and you now work in the public relations for pharmaceutical firms and things of that nature, but you have a little background in your own life where you had to deal with some pretty profound health challenges, not only with you, but with you, with your mom, I believe, and that kind of sets the stage for what you do now a little bit. So can you take us back to that time when you had to deal with some some profound challenges in your life.

Yes, so I was working in healthcare, PR, actually, and I was in hospital setting when I myself, was diagnosed with breast cancer, which was literally a month after my mom had passed from metastatic breast cancer, and frankly, it was very traumatic, because I was still grieving my mom when I was diagnosed, and I had a young child, very young child at home. It was right before his. Let's see. Now I always, I always get this, I don't know why, because it's going back a ways. It was right after his. I guess it was right before his second birthday that I was diagnosed, and as I say, it was after my mom had passed away, so I was celebrating his birthday in the hospital. So that alone was was challenging, and I continued to work, because I found for myself, even though I was getting after my surgery, I had a lumpectomy, and then there were no clear margins, so I wound up having a mastectomy and reconstruction, which back then, was called Tran flap. I understand that now they've advanced that surgery, and it's not maybe as invasive, or it's done a little differently, but okay, long story short, I recuperated then I was getting chemotherapy, but I still went to work, and I don't think I missed a day. I would go for my treatment and then go in to the office, and that was my life, you know.

So, yeah, you had several things going on there all at once. You had the trauma of losing your mom, and then you have a not quite two year old son that you know, that has drama and trauma written all over it, just by the nature of being a parent of a young child, and then breast cancer diagnosis and all the chemo and, you know, the dramatic surgery, vasectomy, I believe that you said that you had and and so a lot of things going on. So what were some of the things you were doing then, to kind of deal with it, to cope with it, either physical health wise or spiritually or family wise or relationships. What were some things you're doing to kind of cope with it?

That's a very excellent question. And I don't know. And I know you and I chatted about this. I don't know. I think it was knowing I had to persevere. I, as you mentioned, I was a mother. It wasn't like I could go hide somewhere, right? I had to manage his doctor appointments, because when they're little, you go more often. I had my own doctor appointments. I had my work schedule, and, you know, I kept, I have a lot of energy, I guess because I kept doing what I normally do. And, you know, I was out seeing friends, doing family events, you know, whatever it was. I also, you know, my dad had lost his dear wife. They were very, very. Clothes, okay, that is, was also

When I say, Were you kind of caretaking for him as well,

in a way, because he was on Long Island. We live in Manhattan, and I would go see him, and wanted to make sure he was okay and taken care of. And, I mean, at that time, he was very physically fit, but, you know, sad and stress, and it sounds terrible to say it, but they had, they had a lot of friends, and unfortunately, over time, people sort of pulled back. You know, one of his childhood friends who he stayed in touch with his whole life, actually had the audacity to say to him, he's sort of, you know, oh, well, you always seem so sad. Well, is that, is that the answer to run away from someone who's sad after losing their wife? You know, that kind of thing, you know, I think he probably would have benefited, but he wasn't interested in a support group or a grief counseling. He just, he just wasn't interested in that.

Well, it sounds like, in a way, he may have been a little bit dependent on you, or at least you, had you stepped up your engagement with him a little bit more, and that became a part of what you were dealing with then, and so you were coping with that way. And I'm interested in then Nancie, how your own personal experience with cancer of your own, your mom and dealing with your dad and all the traumas of life, how they also integrated, if at all, with your career in PR in medical and pharmaceuticals and things like that, I know in any business, is basically uplifting the good assets of the company and then of the products, and yet, here you were dealing with, you know, the impact of your actual disease and that kind of thing. Did you see any correlation, either in a positive way, or maybe even a challenging way, between your work and your experience?

Well, because I had firsthand experience, I felt I had a good voice. Initially, I maybe, besides the people that knew me and knew that I was going through it, I didn't share so much. But when I started working in oncology, which is what I did, because I was at an agency, and Pfizer oncology was our client, and we were working in the breast cancer space, I had a voice, and I could share my opinions on the patient experience. And you know, we were always trying to formulate campaigns targeting patients and making the patient experience better, we did a survey, a global survey, inviting different organizations around the world to participate. That particular survey pertained to metastatic breast cancer, because there's a lot of stigma, as we all know, because there's no cure, as in earlier breast cancer diagnoses, as long as it doesn't metastasize, it can be treated successfully, you know, and, of course, monitor. So yeah, I definitely, I, I definitely thought my own experience helped the process of planning around promotions and campaigns for breast cancer, yeah. So I definitely, you know, I sort of felt like the smart one in the room.

So well,you were the experienced one. You're the one going through, right? So I would expect that the powers would be would at least, would least carry your voice in those set situations. I would hope that they that they would. And it seemed to me, you correct me if I'm wrong, you may be looking you and your companies may be looking for a bit of an angle to somehow to frame the treatments that you were providing towards the those who were suffering the cancer in such a way that was a, you know, this is a positive thing. See, somehow, to see how, the what, what possibilities you can open for you to mitigate the bad things were happening, you know, to your to your body and things like that. Is this a part of what you're looking for, those type of things?

Yeah, to some degree, you know, again, I wasn't out there, you know, screaming and shouting about breast cancer, but I was aware of what was out there and things that I thought people could relate to having been in those shoes, you know, walking in those.

And somewhat later in life, you started dealing with leukemia In your life, tell me a little bit about that, how that came about in your life, because that was a little bit after your breast cancer situation.

Yeah, it was very bizarre. I went for a routine exam. They do blood work, and a few days later, on a Saturday, we were on a soccer field, and my in. Earnest called me, and I thought, ooh, that's not good. What what doctor calls you on a Saturday, right? And he said, your white blood count is your white blood cell count is elevated. You need to go see a specialist. And that's how it all came about. I rang my breast oncologist, who I'm very close to, that Monday, and I said, What do I do? Should I see and he recommended someone to me at Mount Sinai. Now that oncologist had started, my breast oncologist had started at Mount Sinai, but he had moved around. He knew that Sinai was closest to where I live, and he set me up with the oncologist that I am still seeing under the care of and as you can imagine, that visit, that initial visit, was scary beyond belief. You know, to walk in there, I said to my husband, now, don't give me any lip if I start to cry, because I'm already beyond. I'm not going to say hysterical. I wasn't hysterical, but, but I was like,

This was a traumatic moment, you know, obviously. So tell me a little bit of totally tell me a little bit more about that. What did you have some people when they have traumatic moments like this, they kind of have magnified memories by mean, by that, they kind of see the color of the what, what painting was in the room, or other details, maybe even the smells or sensations that kind of thing. Did you have it? Did you? Did you have a sense of that? This is a profound moment, and tell me a little bit what is going on with you?

It's not exactly what you're asking, but I think it's relevant and related. For some odd reason, the room we went into, and I swear I've never seen that room again. It was like a little tiny corridor that we walked into. My husband was with me, and the doctor, the oncologist, was sitting there with his colleague, I think it was a nurse practitioner, and he had a very glum look on his face, which freaked me out, okay, and that's what I remember like. I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm doomed. And we sat down, and he introduced himself and his colleague, and started talking, and what came to light is that they needed to do a lot more blood tests. Now I can't remember if I had the bone marrow test right then and there. I don't think I did, but I can't recall. And then another person was brought in to draw my blood, and so So once he started talking, I realized this is premature to be that concerned, but, and I did tell my breast oncologist that I thought initially, my oncologist, my hematologist, didn't have the best bedside manner. And, you know, yeah, these are things that I even talk about now. You know, I'm baffled that our medical system or medical schools don't do a better job of educating on the social side of medicine, meaning, yeah, I need his expertise and his clinical intelligence to know how to treat the disease. But I'm a person so sure beyond,

well, I think that's and that's really what I want us to lean into here in a minute here, just kind of because you basically are an advocate now in your roles, not only in your professional life and in your life, you're an advocacy for patients in many way, or people are going through this and but that's where I want to get a little bit more of that, the you know, what you were really experiencing, because that really kind of couched, you know, or that that was put a framework on what you do moving forward. Because I I understand and correct me if I'm wrong. Nancie, that you reacted to your leukemia diagnosis a little bit little differently than you had your prior experience with breast cancer, that you kind of kept it under wraps for a while? Is that right? Kind of kept it and so tell me what led to that, or was this experience a part of that process that you just mentioned, and what led you to kind of want to keep it quiet for a significant amount of time.

Okay, so a couple of things. One, I think the first thing that popped in my head is I didn't want my father to know he was he has since passed away. He was a major warrior in general, and a very loving, caring man. And I knew this would devastate him. Gosh, gee, she had breast cancer. Anita, my wife, had breast cancer. Now she's got leukemia. Like, I just knew it would just be completely.

Was it kind of a thing? Like, one more thing might, might be a, you know, be a major problem for you, right?

Yeah. Yeah, right. And also, at this point, I had two children. My dream when I was dealing with breast cancer was the desire to have another child. And after my treatment, I was on Tamoxifen, which is a five year treatment. Every time I saw my surgeon, my breast surgeon and my breast oncologist, I would say, I want to have another child. I want to have another child. I even question potentially halting the Tamoxifen, which I didn't wind up doing, but all this to say that I did successfully after finishing tamoxifen. Have a second child. So I have a 27 year old who was two when I was diagnosed with breast cancer, and I have a 18 year old. Wow. So I also, for the longest time, kept both the breast cancer and the CML a secret from them. This was very important to me, because I didn't know how they would respond, and I didn't want to frighten them.

So, so you kept it a secret from your children and from your father.

Was my father then thinking, well, if they're the people who are closest to me, if they can't know, or I don't want them to know, I certainly can't tell anyone else, you know, right? I mean, besides my sister, my husband, and I think I told one close friend, but that was it, and I also didn't want to be discriminated against in in workforce.

Yeah? Well, those are factors that you got to think about. So what? Yeah, man, now you're kind of an advocate for all these things. And so what was there a tipping point or turning point that brought you around to say, Okay, I need to be able to share this for whatever reasons. So that's where I'd like to go with you for a minute. What changed?

Okay, what changed were a few things life has changed, right? I mean, there was the horrible COVID for several years. The work force has changed in relation to COVID. I have worked with patient advocates. I mentioned Pfizer oncology was a client of mine for many years, and I worked with the lung cancer patients and breast cancer patients. And I never thought of it for myself, but I would often attend, besides the big conferences, ASCO, AACR, San Antonio, breast symposium, ESMO. In addition to attending as a professional, those events, I was also attending as a patient, but not sure you know, sharing that. And that also included smaller conferences, leukemia, lymphoma society puts on a conference. American Cancer Society, breast cancer.org, all these groups put on events, conferences, I'll say, sometimes it's a webinar, sometimes it's just a panel, and I started going to these. Well, I was going to them, but I started going to them, maybe more regularly. And same time, a gentleman who we both know, Tim son, oh yeah, has a conference. And I only recently had discovered through LinkedIn that he had CML, I we knew each other separately, through another connection. And then he started talking about CML, and I just privately reached out to him and said, I have CML. I didn't know you did. And then he told me about his conference, and this was the third year he was doing it, patient perspectives and cancer. And I went. It was in October, and it was very intimate. Unlike other conferences, you know, it was held in an office building, in some somebody's office. And there were people there who had melanoma, AML, which is another form of leukemia, colon cancer, breast cancer, CML and so on. And people got up and shared their stories. That was, that was, that was the agenda. Is not the word.

That was the I know that's basically what Tim does. It gives people an opportunity to share the story, and then for people to reflect and try to be helpful, help one another, right? It's kind of a collaborative that type of thing is, I've been on this show, and he's been on mine, and I know that's how he works, and I know and I'm familiar with his conference. And so what Tell me about your experience at that conference? It sounds like that was,

yeah, so sitting there, like, literally, a little light bulb went off and said, You could do this. You could talk about your story and like, I guess being among that particular group of people, most of the people in the room were patients or caregivers, and there were a few other folks, somebody that did massage, and a few other people, but the majority were patients. And I thought. Yeah, this is safe. This feels safe. And so in listening to people talk, I thought, I'm going to talk to Tim after and I'm going to inquire. I know he has a podcast, and he told me about the podcast before the conference, and he said, maybe you'd want to be a guest. And even I remember him asking, I was like, oh, okay, so like that would be be, you know, really spilling all the beans. But even at that conference, we had a breakout session, as we did, you know, did during the course of the day and chatting with some people. One gentleman is an advocate in diversity in the black community for lung cancer. And another woman is a trauma nurse. She also has a daughter that's that has brain cancer that requires a lot of treatment. There was a gentleman there who works in real estate. His dear friend passed from cancer a year ago, and just sitting there talking to them, I tend to have a good sense of humor, and tend to be, I'm told by my friends, fine, yeah, I don't know I'm being so we were just chatting, and we were telling stories, and my husband has Parkinson's, and I brought up some examples of, I mean, I, I made, I made light of some of it, because sometimes, yeah, well,

that, Yeah, that's what Chris, that's what we talk a lot about here, is how people cope so, so go there with me. What was one of the stories or episodes you're able to share or learn from others, they were able to kind of help lighten the mood a little bit, or give a little perspective with a little humor in it. Do you have any stories along that line? Well,

I'll tell you a silly story that I said about Parkinson's, but it was kind of, I was saying how, you know, when my husband and I go to synagogue, and we used to go more regularly, but we actually did meet at the synagogue, you know what? When, when the the the closing, what do we call it? We don't call it a hymn. We call it a song. I'm just trying to think of the word. It's a prayer and a song. And I like run downstairs to try and get a seat for the the Kiddush is the collation grows a little bit eat and drink. And I race downstairs to make sure, because they only have limited seating for my husband. So I made the joke that if I see if there isn't an empty seat, and I see someone about to sit down, I pull the chair out.

Okay.

We walk through and, you know, but making light of it, and, of course,

Well, that that, that's awesome. Well, yeah, just to make the the approach of humor and and give a little perspective on things you mentioned earlier, about how you had a little bit of a uncomfortable or an odd or weird experience with a doctor who had some bad, bad side bedside manner, manner, you said. And then you see how, now, how this relationship with a bit of humor into it, or a little bit of lightness, or not taking your take your situation seriously, but not yourself so seriously that that's helpful. Have you seen that happen as you've if you hope it seems like you've had a time here where you've opened yourself up more to more of this here recently, Nancie, and that's that's been a good thing as what are you learning about yourself, or what do you learn about others that is helping you cope, and maybe some learnings that can help other people cope with their situations.

So, I'm a pretty friendly, outgoing person, and I will talk to people where I find like people can be very closed in their own little world, in their own little mind. And I've just noticed when I talk to other people, when I say they're receptive, I just think it takes someone to initiate. Look. I even think about my oncologist. He now laughs at my jokes, you know, he, you know, or it's not even my jokes, it's my story. You know, my story is, I'll tell him something that happened, and, you know, he finds it amusing or comical, but I just find it easier than, you know, the heaviness, you know, you know. I mean, as you said, it's, it's serious stuff, you know, thank God I'm doing well and you know, it's, it's okay.

Give me an example, one of the funny stories you may have said to your oncologist that got him going a little bit. I know, I have little banter back and forth. And forth with with my Docs as well, but has that go ahead, I

It's oftentimes in relation maybe to my husband, because he knows my husband, not that he's recently, but it was probably tied to that. And, you know, I'm at a loss. I can't think of anything right off.

But if you but sound like you have these moments with your doctor, here's what I'm getting at here with you here Nancie, when you have these moments, not only with your own self and with others, your husband, it sounds like and with your doctor and other people, that is a part of the process of not. Coping with things, but helps you get to the next step, the next day, or whatever it it would be, and, and I think that's also a good thing. And I'm also interested, as we kind of take a turn here a little bit our conversation about how this may relate to your career as a PR person, because a public relations, almost by definition, is putting a, you know, a good face, put, you know, whatever lipstick on the pig or whatever people say, you know, make something look good. This doesn't look good, you know, to that type of thing. So does this relate at all to what you do in your career, about how you can the interaction between the worlds of of oncology and PR and all this kind of thing? Is there a place for a positive outlook, or a place for humor, or anything along that line? So I just let you, I just ask you that,

Yeah, I sort of took on a philosophy a long time ago, that, because life is stressful in general, regardless of a medical in my case, chronic condition. You know, I just want to be happy. And I know that might sound very frivolous or

No, not at all, please go on with that thought,

Yeah, I just want to be happy, and I want to laugh, and I want to laugh a lot, and I choose, you know, comedies over dramas. Sometimes, you know, I want to go to bed laughing. So I happen to love Modern Family has reruns. It's one of the shows I think, very, very funny. We watched the late night shows before. That's like we switched between Jimmy Kimmel and Stephen Colbert and right? Because I want to go to bed feeling happy and feeling good, and I want to look forward to things. And like I said, Life is stressful. You know, I talk a lot about when you go and I'll get to the PR eventually, but like when you go for a mammogram, which I obviously do annually, and I go for a sonogram, this is not a joyful experience. There's anxiety around it, and sure, sometimes very frustrating. You arrive and the person that greets you doesn't greet you, basically, date of birth, name, just, you know, but you know, those events are definitely anxiety provoking or produce, yeah, so I guess the rest of the time I just want to be as happy as I possibly can. And again, Life is stressful and paying bills, and, you know, Will I have money for this? Well, all of this, you know, it's the life you live, right? Sure, you know, we all it's not, I'm not. I'm not Pollyanna, I don't have rose colored glasses.

Yeah,but if you can go to bed happy and have a laugh, that helps you to manage and you feel, just feel better, right?

You just right. And, and I'm fortunate that, you know, I was raised by parents that were very funny and had good sense of humor. My husband has a good sense of humor. My kids do too. And, you know, we laugh at one another like we poke fun at one another in a help good way, you know, right? Yeah, you know, it's,

well, that's, uh, that's awesome. And so then the part of what you do then the PR is try to reflect some of that into the products and that, the services and the that, that that type of thing, I assume. But let's, let's take it this area, and it kind of will kind of conclude on this point. Have you seen how I've seen a transformation in you, just in our conversation here today, in our prior conversations, how you went from a person who, for whatever reason, you know, dealt was this was pretty heavy stuff you had to deal with, and you chose to keep it under wraps for a lot of reasons. And now that you're stepping out, you're on podcasts like mine and like on Tim's, and you're sharing your story. You're going to the conferences, not only in a professional role, but in a personal role. And it seemed like it's made a big difference for you. Have you seen how, either in your own personal experience, your own personal influence, or anything you've seen maybe at one of these conference, you've been where somebody else has had some sort of a transformation or change, and you've either witnessed that, or maybe been a part of that, where they went from some bad state to a good state?

Yeah, I don't know if I've actually witnessed it, but I've had positive reinforcement. Or, you know, I was at a women in communications event. It was on healthcare. The last talk was on breast cancer, and I raised my hand because I had a point to make, and I didn't even know I was going to do it, to be honest, you know, but apparently, what I said resonated with many people in the room, and people came up to me afterwards, you know, I was talking about advocating that there be a national day where, you know, employers encourage women to get mammograms. And instead of it just being, you know, yeah, there's breast cancer month in October, and, you know, there's other months tied, but, but, like, really, to get employers behind, right?

So maybe, like, a, like a, like a paid day off, or whatever it would be to go get a mammogram or something like that. So you're an advocate. So, like, I mean, I resonated with you on that. That sounds like, that's good, good, good.

Yeah, they did. And I also said something which is probably controversial, but I don't think that. I think women should go to a breast surgeon for their breast exams, you know. And I said that out loud, what does that mean? Yes, you normally go to an OB, GYN who checks your bottom and your top and they're supposedly knowledgeable, they're really not. And even the woman on the stage said that's true, right? They're not certified in the breast the way a breast surgeon is they, it's like they know more about the bottom part of women's right? I mean, then you know. And I feel very strongly about that, because I think that not to say everyone needs surgery, but it's the breast surgeons that seem not seen. It's the surgeons that really know whether something is problematic.

So sure, you're just talking about a kind of a proper process, if you will, or proper protocol, maybe, about how people can approach this, and that's, that's your advocacy now, and so that that's awesome. It sounds like you are just kind of scratching the surface of your advocacy for all this Nancie. And I think that that's awesome. So if you sound like you're getting involved and getting you're getting out there, and you're putting yourself out there, and you've had some tremendous changes in your own life, and you're gonna and sound like you really want to be a part of helping other people. So if, if there's one thing you advice you could give to someone who's going through some of this type of stuff we've talked about here, whether it's leukemia or breast cancer or maybe a family member, or maybe, you know, a loss in the family, grief like you've had just what kind of, what kind of a word of encouragement or uplifting thing might you want to say to a person who's maybe the baby stages all this are going to go, Oh, my world's crashing down on me. What kind of word would you give that person?

I would say you're in charge. Yes, we need the doctors, surgeons, oncologists, but it's really your choice that you have to make, and that includes, if you're not satisfied or content with a particular oncologist that you're seeing, make a switch. I didn't. I stuck with mine, and it worked out. But I'm just saying that, you know, I think sometimes women are so reticent. Oh, I don't want to upset anyone or forget about anyone. This is you. This is your life, your body. And I think that, you know, make decisions that make you feel when I say good. I mean, in charge,

I love that you're in charge. So indeed, I see how you've done that in your own life, Nancie, and now you're an advocate for others, to help them to be in charge of their own life, and to see a bit of the how the options you've chosen to take a little more positive and brighter side outlook on things and leaning into the humor and that that is awesome. So if people want to know a little bit more about you, I know LinkedIn is one of the places they can get a hold of you. Can you share with us a little bit how people can get a hold of you? And we'll put those connections in our show notes as well.

Yeah, I'm on LinkedIn. I'm on Facebook. It's pretty much, you know, my life. I'm a very active New Yorker who takes advantage of what there is out there. And a lot of people call me for dinner and theater recommendations, so I'm happy to provide that as well if you're just passing through our fine city. And I'm also on Instagram,

Awesome. We'll put connections to all that on our show notes at cancerandcomedy.com and we thank Nancie Steinberg for being our guest today. She is an advocate for women in particular, to take charge of their health and their life with a positive view. Thank you, Nancie, for being our guest on cancer and comedy.