The Joyful Art of Coping: Insights From Steve Martin and Martin Short

Debbie Miller 0:00

Hey, there lifter uppers. I'm Debbie Miller, dr, Brad miller's wife. I'm filling in for Deb Kreh, the co host of cancer and comedy, where our mission is to heal cancer impacted people through hope and humor, something we like to call turning the grim into a grin. Today on cancer and comedy, Brad and I are going to talk about an experience we had at a live performance from comedian Steve Martin and Martin Short, we're going to share our impressions, some lessons learned that can be helpful to you. And here's the host of the cancer on Comedy podcast, Dr Brad Noah,

Dr. Brad Noah 0:31

hey, Debbie, a great honor it is to have my very own wife here with me, here on the cancer comedy podcast to share this time together. Deb Kreh is dealing with some dental issues, and she'll be back with us on our next episode, but it's great to have my favorite Debbie in the world, my wife with me, Debbie Miller, to be with us. We have some conversation together here about what we like to deal with here on the cancer comedy podcast, which is helping people to cope with hope and humor people impacted by cancer or any other adversity in life might be depression or divorce or disease or death in the family, things of that nature. And we like to hope that people can have a way to turn their grim into a grin and have a positive outlook on things that can make a big difference. And we hope that you, our lifter uppers, will get connected to our community by simply going over to our website, cancer and comedy.com/follow Hey, Debbie, I like to share a couple of really bad dad jokes. You. You know that I do that from time to time. You're aware that I'm a bad dad joke guy, right?

Deb Kreh 1:42

Yeah, I've heard a couple. Yes.

Dr. Brad Noah 1:44

I thought maybe today I would share a couple of marriage related bad dad jokes so that might you might get feel like these are appropriate. I don't know,

Deb Kreh 1:55

Same

Dr. Brad Noah 1:56

So when it comes to marriage, the only one of your children who does not grow up and move away is your husband? One more here my wife says I never listen, or something like that.

Debbie Miller 2:11

Also very accurate. I'm not sure if user jokes are just reflections.

Dr. Brad Noah 2:15

There you There you go.

Debbie Miller 2:38

Following our conversation. You're going to want to want to stick around for Dr Brad's Bad joke of the day, and our faith at our break it segment. We would love for you to be a part of the cancer on Comedy community, where together we crush cancer with a message of cope, of how to cope with hope and humor. Please follow cancer on comedy. At cancer on comedy.com/follow

Dr. Brad Noah 2:39

Well Deb, one of the one of the reasons really wanted you here for this episode is because you and I are kind of in this partnership together. And I know that a few years ago, when I was diagnosed with cancer, kind of the initial reaction that I had was to, when I got the we got the phone call from the doctor, was to kind of started laughing and nerves laughed, and kind of handed the phone up to you, and you had to deal with it, and maybe had a tear or two, who had to deal with a serious situation. I was laughing to keep from crying, and you were dealing with it in some in some profound ways. So we've developed with it kind of profoundly in your life and mine, and you've also dealt with it, you know, with your dad and so on. So just, you know, just a little background about how you react to those things in your life.

Debbie Miller 3:32

Yes, it was. Sometimes I feel like I still can't believe what happened. My dad got cancer. He had stomach cancer, and he died about nine months after diagnosis. He was 51 when he died, and I was 21 couple weeks before his birthday, and my birthday, both of us had birthdays in early May, so it was just kind of a kind of unreal experience. I just kind of felt like I was in a fog the whole time, and it just went by so quickly and still hard to believe that happened, even though, you know, it's been over 30 years ago, which is kind of, that's kind of hard to believe too. Actually, it's been over 40 years ago, so, yeah, it's really just hard to believe. And so when, then, when you were diagnosed with cancer, it was just kind of a again, I just really couldn't believe it, that it happened. And just I made me think a lot about my dad and when he was sick and and that experience for our family, and what my mom went through, and then it just seemed unreal. But you know, here it was happening again.

Dr. Brad Noah 4:29

And I think you and I both, you know, part of the coping with it was our marriage together. And in your case, growing up, you know your sister and your mom and other people in your life helped you to cope with the loss of your your dad and and our kids and grandkids were helpful to me and to you, but also you know, people surrounding us and being a part of our lives and helping us to you know, keep our keep going, keep pressing on and to have and know that there is still some joy in life that we can experience. And I. You say that's the case, and in your case as well, you deal with some of the bad times. Would you people can help you have some joy to experience as well?

Deb Kreh 5:08

Oh yes, I think that makes a big difference. Because, I mean, it's kind of like you've had this truth in your brain about cancer, and you need to find things to distract you from that, or to take up your time, or just to laugh, have laughter be a part of your day. Just so that's not, you know, beating you over the head, you know, 24/7 like a hammer. I mean, it's always there in the back of your mind, but you need to find other things to focus on, too. Just so, like you said, you can still have some joy in your life and not have that be the only thing that's going on

Dr. Brad Noah 5:40

and one of the joyful things that you and I do from time to time is we like to we like to watch comedy on television, and funny things. I know when I sometimes, when you laugh at a television show, you your laughter just rings through the whole house, and it just fills up the whole house. I reckon. You know, that's just a great sound to hear. And one of our favorite television shows we've enjoyed recently is only murders in the building, which stars Steve Martin and Martin Short and Suleiman Gomez. And we've we've really enjoyed that. It's been about four or five years now. We've enjoyed that a lot, haven't we?

Deb Kreh 6:16

Yes, yeah, that is a show that we watched together, that we really do enjoy. It's very funny, it's very quirky kind of humor, and it's very unpredictable. You never know where it's going to go. But, yeah, that is one of the things that we do that it's, it is really funny. I would recommend that as a funny show. And kind of got me more interested Steve Martin and Martin Short, just more of their history, of the different things they have done in their careers before, just this television show

Dr. Brad Noah 6:39

that's, you know, one of the things we do is we like to, you know, watch TV together and things like that. We also had this opportunity here recently, a week or so ago that Steve Martin and Martin Short brought, we lived in Annapolis, Indiana, and they brought their show, their live show, their live comedy show, here to Indy, and we went to see it. So tell me, and that was a lot of fun for me, at least. Tell me your impressions of going to see Steve Martin and Martin Short in person. Give me some kind of impressions of what that was for you.

Deb Kreh 7:10

Yeah, that was a lot of fun. I don't think I have ever before went in person to see a comedy show. Maybe I have, so that was kind of a new experience. We've been to several concerts and different plays and things like that, but not a comedy show. So that was a fun experience. I wasn't sure what to expect, and it was a really interesting hodgepodge of things, everything from musical skits to comedy skits to audio audience participation. They showed like clips and photos of their early career and different things they had done, but it was, it was a lot of fun. It was fun being, you know, with a large group of people experiencing that together, everybody laughing together, that sense of community, and that was also an enjoyable part of it. But yeah, it was something I really enjoyed. And, you know, it made me think, you know, maybe we should go to some other comedy shows in person, because it's definitely a different dynamic than just watching something on Netflix, for example, it's, it's another element of fun to it with the community atmosphere.

Dr. Brad Noah 8:10

And when you go see comedy show gives you kind of a break. You use your relief, and you get to have some some fun together. And in this case, I just thought there were some really less, you know, lessons we can learn from Steve Martin and Martin Short in their show together that I think would be applicable to our lifter uppers or cancer comedy lift followers who are dealing with cancer or some other tragic thing in their life and and I think there's some things that we can learn there. You know, I first became aware of Steve Martin way I got I went to see him in person in the 1970s you know, it shows you how old I am, about 1978 when he had a song called King Tut and he did, had a very popular comedy album out. We had an arrow through his head and had some other bunny ears he wore and fun. And I saw him in concert back then. I even he played the banjo back to even motivated me to buy a banjo and take some banjo lessons all the way back then. And he had some movies, lots of movies I've enjoyed over over the years. And he's 80 years old now. So he's, I'm 67 so, but he's several years older than me, but he's still going at age 80. And Martin Short is 75 and course, Martin Short was in Saturday Night Live and some several other movies and things like that. They both. These guys were in a movie about the the wedding, about a wedding, about father the bride. And it was a lot of fun. Came out several years ago, but these two guys got together in a movie called the Three Amigos, which is came back in the mid and 1980s and they got to be good friends, and their friendship has now lasted well over 35 years or so, 40 years really, I think, as well, there's been they've had friendship and partnership where they've worked together, and as they age together and work together, I just think there are some things. We can learn about their relationship together and how they do comedy and things like that that helps one another, that I think is important. Did you pick up on any kind of themes and what you experienced there, Debbie, that are that? Did you think were that spoke to you? Yeah.

I mean, definitely. I obviously, they have a good rhythm together. You can tell that they're friends, they're good communicators, but I think one of the main things that stood out to me is when you surround yourself with the right people, it makes all the difference. And obviously they have this great, deep friendship. So when they're together, they trust each other. But one of the things they did during the show is they highlighted, you know, the awards that each one has and the different films and TV shows they've been in, but they do it in a way where they're highlighting each one, but they're not competitive in any way. So one person's success is the other person's success, and that really came through. And I think that's part of a good friendship when you're not threatened by the success of someone else, and also when you've got that aspect where the humor is just there. When you almost it's almost like you have a shared language. You can say four words and you know what story they're going to say, because it's an experience that they had together.

And I think we need to be sure, when you share life together over the course of 40 years, whether it's in a marriage or in a friendship, you have ups and downs. And when you're a cancer impacted person, whether you are the person who has cancer or somebody in the in the family or friends, it impacts you. And in the case with Martin Short, it impacted his life very directly. In 2010 his wife Nancy died of ovarian cancer, and was pretty horrible situation, as you might imagine, and Steve Martin and was able to be there as a friend through that whole process and help him through that. And and Martin Short then credits his buddy Steve Martin with being very helpful to him, to help him to to cope with the loss, and indeed, part of the coping process was to continue to perform, to continue to do things. And it was they continued to perform together in movies and in live performances, and more recently, in the murders in the building a TV show. And so they did that. And so Martin Short's really known for persevering through his loss, but with maintaining positivity in his life, kind of no matter what. And Steve Martin has had his bouts of dealing with career ups and downs in his life, and he gave up comedy, as far as stand up comedy for quite a while in his life, because of some bad experiences he had, and Martin Short is able to be there for him as well. And they, even as they are aging now, they have shared life together. So that's one of the things I want us to talk about here a little bit, is how this commonality of friendship and relationships over years, lifting each other up can be an important thing, thing to do. And so that's one of the things I wanted to mention here, is that you really feel the importance of a deep friendship here. Did you pick up on that? And our time together with them? They really have a genuine friendship. It wasn't just a couple of people put together to do a show. They have a deep friendship.

Oh yeah, you could definitely tell that they are friends, you know, they show up for each other. They're not trying to change each other. They, like I said before, they highlight each other's accomplishments, and they take joy in that. And, you know, and I think it's also part of that, I think, is because they've reinvented themselves so many times over the years, and they're curious about things and and they embrace change and aren't threatened by it. And I think that's difficult to do sometimes, but when you have a partner in crime, so to speak, it makes it a little bit easier to do, because I think they both have experience with stand out, stand up, Saturday Night Live movies, music. Broadway, I mean, I think by the way, that Steve Martin started playing the banjo when he was a teenager, but I think his first album didn't come out until he was in his 60s. So that passion, that curiosity, you know, kept him interested in that, and it came to fruition so much longer. I think it shows when you stay engaged and when you have a curious mind, especially when you do that among your friends, the possibilities are endless.

Yeah, I think it's the dynamic is cool. You can tell it's genuine. It's authentic with them. And some of the one of the themes, I think, is the healing power that those two guys have. They you to make make each other laugh. They kind of have a competitive spirit to try and make each other laugh. And when they do that, it's funny to the audience. You know, we all kind of laugh as they kind of, oh, put each other down a little bit about getting older or not being talented or making stupid movies or making stupid career moves, and but they also have each other's back, as you said, and that. There's a Martin Short continued to perform shortly after what his wife Nancy died. One of the reasons, he says because his wife Nancy asked him to Mach and wanted him to continue. And so I think Ed also and Steve Martin then was a part of supporting that. So I think it says something about the power of laughter and comedy to help people to continue to process grief in a way and in such a way that said, it's therapeutic. There's a little bit of escape in comedy, but it also helps to process some grief, because in this case, short, his wife Nancy wanted him to do it, and his buddy Steve helped him through it. What do you what do you think about that?

No, I think that makes a lot of sense, because humor can be a great distraction, especially when you're dealing with painful challenges, and laughter is something it's interesting, because sometimes you don't know what's going to make you laugh. You think something will and it won't. Then there's something that you think, well, that's not really funny, but then the next day, oh, that is funny, and it is a great distractor. And I think it affects, I think we all agree that what you do with your body affects your your mind. It just does. So you feel laughing, those endorphins are flowing, and it does affect your mind. So I think there's a, definitely a connection there,

and there's a connection there that's genuine and real. It's it's a deep friendship and relationship. And I understand even in recent times, you know, they've had some physical health challenges. They check up on each other about their physical health, among other things, I know that you and I were a little bit concerned at the show we went to, because we knew that they had to cancel a show a few weeks prior to the when they came to here at the Indy, and we were the, you know, these guys are 80 and 75 so you just never know and but that they came through that. And so I think that's for the architecture of a deep friendship, how you check in on each other genuinely. And it's not just a partnership. It is a it is a intertwined relationship. And the ego kind of lets go. You know, they kind of, it seems to me, on their show, it was about each ego kind of served the other ones. In the sense of, then they had a common confidence about their performance, but it had to do with them working together. Rather than one trying to one up the other. They both kind of celebrated each other's successes. And I'm sure I know from reading up about a little bit, they have been helpful to one another when they haven't succeeded. So any thoughts about how they kind of work together on that?

Yeah, I mean, I think definitely they give each other feedback, and they're trying to be supportive, but I think they probably have the kind of friendship, the kind of friendship that we all like when a friend can be honest with us, when perhaps what we're doing is not really up to the standard that we want it to be, and we want that honesty and it can be given, You know, tenderly and with love and with friendship. So yeah, I definitely think that is something that you see with those two, and the importance of their their communication with each other, that they're there for each other, but they are not trying to change each other, but each other's advocate. So I think that's something you definitely see, not only in their friendship, but also as they perform on stage. And they there's a lot of other people in this movie besides then they have a pianist. They have Steve Martin's band. He plays banjo with. I mean, there's a lot of people involved. And you can tell it just seems like they all are just having a blast, and they all really love and care for each other,

brothers on the live show. There's this intergenerational thing, you know, going on, but a lot kind of a theme going through the whole show, and even on the murders in the building show, is this thing about aging and mortality and still being having fun, still being playful, that you can still be playful and have fun no matter what age you are. I mean, they were, they were dancing and being silly and had costumes. And remember one skit they did where basically Steve Martin was the Ed Martin Short is ventriloquist dummy. Remember that, you know, that was just a lot, lot of fun to see that just being playful, and it's almost a defiant joy and energy that is there, especially with short. He's just, you know, he's all over the place and that kind of thing. And, and is that, keep in mind, he, this guy is a widower, and he has that grief kind of underlying. Anyone who's gone through a loss like that knows you have that. And those who deal with cancer and other things like that, no, it's still with you. It doesn't go away. It's still with you, but it's how you how you cope with this. And, and Steve Martin, you know, has a a innocence about him and sense of, kind of discovering these things in life. And I understand, you know, he became a father at age 67 so one of the things he talks about from time to time is being the an older father and finding joy later in life, even. And as a father of a young child and then. So I think that's some lessons learned for us, people who cope with cancer and other things in life, that we can find new purposes, new ways of reinventing our lives as we age or as our bodies change and things like that. So these two guys, 80 and 75 are still performing, still doing a demanding tour. You know, I don't how many cities they did, but a whole bunch of cities around, you know, around the country, around the world, and they're live tour, and they're doing this TV show, and they're all involved with other things, movies and things like that, and that's physically demanding. And so they, to me, that says a commitment to stay active. And I know you're it's important to you for exercise and staying active and things like that. But I think that's pretty cool thing, this whole thing that they they're not giving up, are they? They're they've not, they're not settled down. They are still active.

Yeah, definitely. And I think, I think part of his too, is they are deliberate, which we all should be deliberate with how to spend our time, recognizing that life is a gift to sign entitlement and being delivered about how you want to spend your time, who you want to be surrounded by, what you want that attitude to be, and even as we age and as that involves change, and we can't necessarily do the things we used to do, but just because something is different doesn't mean It can't still be good at adapting to what limits that might be there, and just going forward with a sense of humor, and again, being deliberate in what we do, because time is precious, as we all know, and it's important to keep it focused on the humorous side.

One of the things I think Steve Martin and Martin Short do pretty well, and I think that's one of the secrets to their success, as they work together, and then with Selena Gomez and The murders in the building show, is this kind of a balance as you were, maybe literally a tightrope between performance, positive performance, and authentic emotion. You know, Martin Short is kind of known for being relentlessly positive and and, and Steve Martin is known for finding humor and kind of everyday things, and but there's a line between toxic positivity and choosing joy and understanding we've got real pain and finding ways to deal with the pain and choosing the laugh even if we're in pain. And for both these guys, they face their challenges in life, and they've chosen to be have a good attitude about it, to have to laugh at things more often than to cry about cry about things. Martin Short once said, I think I've been in a pretty good mood pretty much most of my life. Well, some people might say that's, you know, that's being in denial, but I think it's him choosing that way to cope. And Steve Martin is often has this bit of a melancholic undercurrent, despite the laughs, where he has a little bit of sadness and humor about everything is going on in his life. And so I think for people dealing with cancer and things like that, we need to kind of understand there is a balance in life. There is sometimes when we just need to choose to for the benefit of others, even to be strong and know there may be some times in private when we need to not be strong and to and we can learn to kind of have a balance here a little bit. So I don't know, I just share a little bit there. Debbie, what's your have any reaction to that thought?

Yeah, I think balance is important. Obviously, if you need to cry, you should cry. You know you shouldn't fake being happy. But I think this is kind of about trying to emphasize the joy aspect of it. And you might be surprised about how that can take over in ways you don't expect, and whether you're watching on three stooges within a THON, or just, you know, reading a bad joke book, or whatever it is you're doing is having that balance being honest with yourself, but also surrounding yourself with joy and happiness and just goofy humor, because that can make a difference in how you view the day.

I want to turn to the TV show we've enjoyed so much, murders in the building. Yeah, Selena Gomez is a big part of that. And she's, I'm not sure how old she is, about 30, I think. And so these guys are obviously older guys, but it's cool to see the interplay between the younger person who's, you know, up to speed on social media, and the current pop star, she's a pop star, of course, things like that, and see how they have this interplay. And in a way, it's like, see Martin shorter have kind of reinvented themselves, and with the help of someone like Selena Gomez, and that's been cool to see, hasn't it? How that their story is not done yet. They're kind of rewriting their story. Do you have any thoughts about that?

Yeah. I mean, I think the intergenerational friendship that they have on that show is very heartwarming to watch, and it just shows that if you open up your heart to new experiences and to new people, that you might be surprised the friendships that can develop and just the things that you can learn from from people. Aren't exactly like you it, you know, it is a joy to see,

yeah, indeed. And it also shows they give, they give and take each other, you know, they give and take. And this humor that's, you know, kind of silly at times, and a little bit of cerbic at sometimes, but you never see it as mean spirited, do you? You don't, you know, it's never that kind of thing. It's never to put somebody down. They're not exploiting others situations in the TV show. There's your family situations regarding, you know, parenting and marriage and death and dying and murder guards, murders in the building and other things, like that disease, all kinds of things are mentioned in that TV show, but it's not about exploiting personal pain. It's about kind of understanding it, and having a little bit of a twist and about it. And so I think there's some really good things to share about here. What was some point that kind of struck you, Debbie, kind of emotionally about either the performance, performance we saw, or the TV show, or about anything else about Steve Martin and Martin Short, that was kind of struck your emotions.

Well, I think in the TV show, and I don't want to do a spoiler alert here, you know, if you haven't seen the current season all the way through, but there is some parts in that where you know, there's a question of whether or not the apartment building where they all live is still going to be an apartment building anymore. And that even goes beyond the main characters on the show, that there is in a community, is a community that lives in this apartment building. Of some people are friends, some people are acquaintance, acquaintances, and they there's really a sense of grief and mourning in losing that connection. So I think that's kind of a message that we all can take away from that is, you know, realize how important connections are, and don't take them for granted and do what you need to do to nurture them, because connections are an important way to be deliberate in your life with how you want to spend your time, the people you want to stand around you with, and how that doesn't make a difference in your day to day life.

Yeah, I think that's well said there, and I just think there's some sensibility about they really try to respect how each one copes. They kind of push each other a little bit and try to help each other to grow a little bit short doesn't push Martin to open up more too often, and Martin doesn't tell short to tone it down, because they got these different personality types and and they both try to just try to keep up with Selena Gomez's character, and it's just, it's a lot of fun. And so I think what I wanted to share here with this is about, you know, this is about having fun and living your life to the fullest, to the end of your life, no matter what it would be. So in this case, I get the sense with Steve Martin Short, and he was Selena Gomez in the TV show, there's not a lot of score keeping, you know, there is just a lot of building each other up. You know, the best they can when they are dead, when they are doing and the reciprocity comes it's, it's a give and take. There they can give as well as they take. And they are, they have a lot of respect or for for one another. I think in many ways, humor is the love language in these shows. And what that do you think?

So, yeah, I just, I definitely agree humor is a love language, and one that we all could use more of, I think.

And I think that's part of what we're trying to do here on what we do here on the cancer and comedy podcast, and it's also about respecting people, and that's what we want to do. I don't believe humor really should be about, you know, putting people down and that kind of thing and being destructive. It should be constructive and that kind of thing. And if humor is your love language, part of that just making each other laugh. And I know you and I enjoy making each other laugh a lot. That's part of what I believe has a good marriage for you and I, we like to laugh and have some fun together, don't we, and then, and when that happens, when you laugh together, there's a certain, you know, synchronicity of that, which is really, really cool. And Steve Martin, Martin Short, been together for 40 years. You and I have been married for, you know, 34 years, and been together before that, and so I think long term relationships got to have some humor in them. Don't you think so? Oh yes, yes, you need humor. And think that's what we have in you. So I just want to thank you, Debbie Miller, for being on here on the podcast today, and for helping us to unpack this does sound like you had a pretty good time at the at the event and and any just kind of final thoughts that you might have about your time at the Steve Martin Martin Short show, or murders in the building, or anything else that you want to say, or anything you might want to share with our cancer and comedy listeners.

Well, I mean, it was a it was a good show. I recommend. It if it's something you can go see if it's going to be in your area, or, I think we have seen a comedy show of theirs before on Netflix, an older one from a couple years ago. So maybe that's something you can see, but it is interesting humor, because they reflect on their past and they make fun of themselves, but they also appreciate how everything that you do leads up to where you are now, and that connection is there, and how that's an important connection, so I would definitely recommend it, and I think it's a lesson to all of us to be deliberate in how we live our lives and about what we surround ourselves with, because that makes a big difference in how our day looks and how we feel about our life from day to day.

I agree with you completely, and I would just kind of kind of close our conversation with that. Humor is a love language between two friends who've had this long term friendship and share it with the world. And humor is love language for you and I, and for people who are trying to cope with hope and humor to to deal with their cancer or whatever it is, we're here to be helpful to your life and lift you up a little bit. We like to call our followers lifter uppers. And I want to thank you, Debbie, for being our main lifter upper and lifting me up during my time of need and for this celebration. So thank you, Debbie Miller, for being here and this conversation here on the cancer and comedy podcast.

Now it's time for our cancer and comedy segment. Dr Brad Miller's Bad joke of the day. You.