Moving Beyond Surviving: Healing Cancer’s Emotional Impact Through Outdoor Adventures and Community w/ Dr. Kelly McLean, (breast cancer specialist)

Hey there lifter uppers. I'm Deb Krier, the co-host of Cancer and Comedy, where our mission is to heal cancer-impacted people through hope and humor, something we like to call turning the grim into a grin. And we're going to be talking with Dr. Kelly McLean, who specializes in breast and melanoma cancers, along with her husband, Tom Tressler. They founded Move Beyond Surviving. Now here is the host of Cancer and Comedy, Dr. Brad Miller.

Hey, Deb, great to be with you here today on this special episode of Cancer and Comedy, where we are talking with Dr. Kelly McLean, who practices at Christ Hospital in Cincinnati, Ohio, specializing in breast and melanoma cancers. And we're going to really focus today on what she does beyond the operating room as part of an organization called Move Beyond Surviving.org, which addresses the emotional and physical aspects beyond medical treatment. That's something you've experienced in your story.

Oh, I have, you know. And one of the things is that when we are diagnosed, even if someone tells us you are cured, you still live with this forever. There's that shadow, that elephant in the room, whatever we want to call it. How do we continue? Because there is that thing I told people, "My expiration date got moved up, but the important thing is that we keep living that entire time." Wow.

Well, that's going to be the focus of our conversation. So let's bring on Dr. McLean. It's good to have you with us here on Cancer and Comedy. Welcome.

Thank you. Thank you for having me on your show.

We talk here about going beyond the operating room, beyond the doctor's office. I'm curious, what was the moment that led you to think about how to do something beyond the office or beyond the operating room?

We’ve made a lot of strides in helping to cure breast cancer or helping people live a long time with or without the disease. But these treatments have taken a toll on people, and now that we've gotten past the cure phase, people are left living their lives, but they’re different. It inspired me to help people in the survivorship phase to find their new normal or to discover what they’re capable of afterward.

I love that. And, as Dr. Miller was saying, I'm one of those people. My diagnosis is stage four, triple-positive metastatic breast cancer, one of those really fun ones, right? And I’ve lived with it since that initial diagnosis. Now, I’ve had two other totally unrelated cancers, so I’m going on this three times. I’m almost 10 years out. It’s so funny; I had a conversation today with a friend who is also a breast cancer survivor. We said the hardest and best thing is when our doctor says, "You're done, I don't need to see you anymore," and we're thinking, "Whoa, ring the bell," but then it’s like, "I’ve lived with this for so long now, what?" Talk to us about that because I think that’s one of the hardest things. I see my doctor every 21 days and have for almost 10 years, and now that will be gone.

It’s very similar to PTSD. When soldiers are in the fight, it’s a stressful time, but during that time, they know what they have to do. Then, they come home, or they're told they are in remission, and all of a sudden, there’s this emptiness. There’s anxiety about recurrence and changes in your body. You’ve talked about being very sick from chemotherapy and how it led to kidney disease. There are many side effects, and people need to rediscover who they are. But you’re not going to stop living because you have a long life ahead of you. I looked at Outward Bound, which helps veterans reconnect with themselves, and that's what inspired me to do the same for breast cancer survivors.

I loved reading your website, and I see Move Beyond Surviving.org is tech-free. You’re out in nature, and all those devices we can’t live without aren’t there. I love the concept of finding out who you are and figuring out your new normal.

On Outward Bound trips, we did intense activities like backpacking, white-water rafting, and rock climbing, helping people discover their limits and how they can seek help from others and themselves. We also had a solo where participants stayed by themselves overnight. It was incredibly powerful. Some people, like Laurie, were afraid of heights, but she conquered that fear and felt freed by the experience.

I'm a Colorado girl, so I’ve grown up doing all those activities. But I had a double mastectomy without reconstruction, and my shoulders are sore. Some people put physical limitations on themselves, but how do you help them see those limitations may not be real?

Yes, the Outward Bound trips were the origin. But after COVID, I couldn’t keep funding them, and they weren’t accessible to everyone. So we started the nonprofit, offering half-day to day-long trips. Activities like hiking, skiing, and horseback riding are adaptable for people with different treatment experiences. They can participate as much or as little as they’re comfortable with.

I see you're offering a brewery experience too. That would be fun! I’d love to join.

That sounds right up your alley, Deb. I know you love it.

It’s a great way to bond with others. It’s not a "woe is me" support group, but a chance to connect. Some people need those support groups, and that’s okay. But I say the strongest thing you can do is ask for help.

On our first Outward Bound trip, one woman pulled out her bandana, and it reminded her of chemotherapy. It sparked a conversation among the group about chemotherapy, side effects, and fears of recurrence. Many shared similar experiences, and it bonded them together.

I can’t feel the rocks during rock climbing because of neuropathy in my hands and feet. The physical limitations are real, but overcoming them is part of the healing process.

Exactly. These activities bring up the symptoms people live with and remind them how cancer changes their lives. They also bring up fears about limitations.

Do you do any guided discussions, like around the campfire, encouraging people to share their experiences?

Yes, we start with icebreakers, and at the end, we do a debriefing, where people share their highs, lows, and growth from the day. This sparks conversations and helps them process their experiences.

Can you give us an example of a high, low, and grow?

For instance, with rock climbing, a high for some was getting to the top despite their fear of heights. Lows occurred when people couldn’t complete the climb, but a grow was simply trying again, being proud of themselves for taking that step.

Exercise and movement are key, but what do you think is unique about the outdoor experience—being disconnected from technology and surrounded by nature?

Being outdoors, with no phones or distractions, allows people to reconnect with themselves. It brings a sense of peace, letting them tune into their thoughts, feelings, and the sounds of nature.

I think we crave the outdoors. After being stuck in a hospital for weeks, when I was transferred, they wheeled me out into the sun. My body had missed it. Fresh air, exercise, and sunshine are healing.

I have a similar story. I once took a group of youth to the Smoky Mountains. One young man with liver cancer was in a wheelchair, but his friends pushed him up the mountain, and we all shared a meaningful experience there. I’ve seen that same transformation in others who connect with nature during their cancer journey.

It’s incredible to see people disconnect and reconnect with their inner selves. For one of my patients, a simple hike gave her life back. Her husband said it gave him his wife back.

I’d like to learn more about your organization, Move Beyond Surviving. Is there a plan to expand?

Yes. As we get more funding and participation, we plan to expand to longer trips and possibly open chapters in other areas. Right now, we focus on Cincinnati, but we’ve had people travel from neighboring states.

You’re seeing the need for this, right?

Yes, absolutely. We’re seeing a lot of enthusiasm for it.

Dr. McLean, if people want to learn more about Move Beyond Surviving, how can they get connected?

We’re on our website movebeyondsurviving.org, and you can contact us through the site. We also have a Facebook and LinkedIn page, where we post updates about events and trips.

Thank you so much, Dr. McLean. Your message of hope is so important.

You're right. No one is making it out alive, but we can control how we live between now and then. It’s about growing and working on what we can control.

Thank you again. We’ll be looking for more organizations like this for men, too.

That brings us to the close of this episode of Cancer and Comedy with Dr. Brad Miller. Cancer and Comedy is all about telling uplifting stories of people who are kicking cancer's butt with healing through hope and humor. You can join us in turning the grim into a grin by sharing your story at cancerandcomedy.com/voice. Until next time, remember: a cheerful heart is good medicine.