Laughing Through the Invisible Aftermath: Jim Gaffigan, Caregivers, and Coping With Cancer

Deb Krier 0:01

Deb, hey there lifter uppers. I'm Deb Krier , the co-host of Cancer and Comedy, where our mission is to heal cancer-impacted people through hope and humor, something we like to call turning the grim into a grin. Well, today on cancer and comedy, we're going to talk about how the invisible aftermath affects folks and the long road of recovering from cancer, as Dr Brad talks about his experience in seeing Comedian Jim Gaffigan perform. So now here is the host of the cancer and comedy podcast, Dr Brad Miller,

Dr. Brad Miller 0:33

Hey, Deb, what an honor and privilege is to be with you and all our lifter uppers, the people here in our cancer and comedy.com community, people who have said that whatever your situation in life, whether you've had a cancer diagnosis or some other bad thing happened to you in life, that you're not done yet. You're not done yet, and great things are in store for you. And this is podcast is all about living your life to the fullest, to the end of your life. We like to talk about this transformation, this transition, you can happen. We often talk about it in terms of going from the grim to the grin. The Grim of kind of a depressed state of a diagnosis, for instance, to the grin of a new and fulfilled life that puts us puts a smile on your face. And we like to use humor as a part of that process. And we certainly hope that people will follow in our community, which you can find all about at cancer and comedy.com/follow Hey Dad, we like to have some fun doing dad jokes. Are you ready for a couple of dad jokes here? Maybe one with a with an October themes, which we're in the warmth of October right now. I am ready. All right. Well, this is we're talking in October and falls is happening, and people are starting putting up their Halloween decorations, that kind of thing. I saw a scarecrow out in somebody's yard the other day. It reminded me that about a did you hear about the Scarecrow won an award? You know why they won the award? That scarecrow did? No, because he was outstanding in his field.

Deb Krier 1:56

Oh, but I'm bump. I

Dr. Brad Miller 2:01

need, right? I drumstick, right? One more here? Well, how do you how do you tell the difference between a crocodile and an alligator? I don't know. Well, you see one later, and you see one once in a while. Cute,

Deb Krier 2:14

cute. I love it. I love it. Well, we all love your jokes. And you know, those who are a fan of our program know that we will have another one. So please stick around for Dr Brad's Bad joke of the day, but then we turn serious and we have the very important faith It or Break It segment. Well, as mentioned, we would love for you to be part of our cancer and comedy community, where together we crush cancer with a message of how to cope with hope and humor. Please follow cancer and comedy at cancer comedy.com/follow

Dr. Brad Miller 2:49

Well, Deb, I my we love to be with our community here, and we talk a lot about how there are several elements of helping people to cope with the cancer and laughter That's a part of it, and family and friends and also your significant others, your life. My wife, Debbie, and I celebrated our 34th anniversary yesterday, and so that was a lot of fun, and we had some great time together. What we did to celebrate is something that you and I like to do. And we went to see a comedy show. We went to see Jim Gaffigan. We went to see Jim Gaffigan, very popular comic. He came to our city of Indianapolis, and just happened to be right on the day of our anniversary. So we say, Let's go to Darren. Let's go to the show. And so we did, had a great time doing that. He's one of my favorites. And of course, some of the themes that he works with in his comedy have to do with the experience he had in his life about eight years ago when his wife Jeannie was diagnosed with brain cancer, brain tumor, and they had to suddenly deal with that. And part of what he talked about in his show last night, he talked about several things, and one of the things I love about his humor, it's very observational, and about family life and things going in his life, personally, just chatting with everybody, yeah. And so he talked a little bit of last night in our time together about that's been a few years, but that's part of the ongoing process. Kind of healing is dealing without the aftermath, what he sometimes calls the aftermath, the invisible aftermath, which is this ongoing process of healing that takes place in hell. Humor is a is a part of it. And I just thought, and then I realized I did some more research about Jim and about Jeannie. Jeannie actually put a book out. They she had her cancer diagnosis in 2017 and went through, you know, couple years of, you know, really tough, you know, surgery and treatments and so on about this, and all the ups and downs and and also how their children had five children. They have five children pretty young at the time, at the times of so going through like they were, they were like ages 12 and three or something like that. So, but how they're different states of. Life now and dealing with all that, but that, but the aftermath continues, is what we're talking about here, and how you deal with it does make a difference. And the book, The her, she's got a book she put out around the time, because life gives you pairs, and we can talk about what that meant in a minute, but I just wanted to reflect with you a minute about how I enjoyed this observational humor about dealing with some of the tough things in life with a bit of humor, and also seeing that this is an ongoing process here of life and about how he went, went through some things we can face some terrible things in the fear and disorientation that come with it, with a bit of humor in in your life, and a part of it is about how, the your in this case, your role reversal, your right, your situation was life, taking care of him, and the absurdity of the moment. So give me some your reactions to what you've learned about the humor of Jim gaff again and and what he's all about here. I just think of some things, of some lessons we can learn here, and some think takeaways we can have, right?

Deb Krier 6:02

Well, I think one of the biggest lessons is to talk about it, you know, and, and he uses it, obviously, as part of his humor, but it's also inspirational, but it's informative also, right? And I think what he's showing is we can talk about it, you know, so many times we think, and obviously it's, it's different for every single person, but I think sometimes we think, Oh, we can't talk about it, and, you know, and it's taboo, you know. And there are so many people who are affected by cancer and other serious illnesses, we have to talk about it, you know. And so he normalizes the fact that, you know, this is just another thing that happened in their life.

Dr. Brad Miller 6:46

Well, I think that's true. To talk about it is that, and he his case, his job is to talk about his life in a sense, right? Yeah, and it put it out there. But he has talked about the, you know, he talked of the fear and disorientation happened when the healthiest person that he knew suddenly faced life and death situation and how it also he became a primary caregiver, when really in so many ways, you know, kind of taking care of the family while he was doing and he one of the things he says overnight, I went from The guy on stage making food jokes with a guy keeping five kids fed and getting everyone to school and sleeping in a hospital chair, you feel useless and you can't joke it away. It's a reality of life, so that there is a bit of a absurdity about this change from the change of roles here the caregiver to the giver. And I think a lot of people have have experienced it's not very glamorous, it's not show biz, anything like that, for any of us. And I think there's something to be said, said from this. One of the things he says, I thought was kind of interesting, is one of the quotes he gives in some of the things he's said about this, caregivers don't get parades. They show up every day, right? Something to be said for that, oh, yeah,

Deb Krier 8:04

you know. And, and I think that's one of the things that we forget, is just exactly what the caregivers are going through, you know. And, and, and I always say, you know, people call me a hero. They call you a hero for all this. And I say, Yeah, but our caregivers are the superheroes, you know, they're the ones that have to get us through everything and deal with everything else in life, you know, paying the bills, getting the kids to school, you know, making sure the insurance goes through, right, all of those things. I mean, we're, yeah, we're busy, we're trying to not die. But, you know, at the same point, they're, you know, they're doing all of that, plus they are obviously incredibly worried and stressed. But they have to, you know, they have to, you know, have this, you know, if we're, you know, the stiff upper lip and all of those things, because they don't want us to see that they're frightened, and they're, you know, they're afraid of what's going to happen. So I think we always overlook the importance of our caregivers.

Dr. Brad Miller 9:05

Yeah, and that, I think he brings that home in some of his comedy about how he had to shift roles and things like that, and it was kind of crazy and that kind of a thing. But he's talked talks about, in some of his comedy, about humor as a coping tool, but not a cure. And, you know, we like to say things like, you know, laughter is the best medicine, and so on like that. Well, it's, it's a part of the medication process, but it's part of, it's a part of the IT. Comedy doesn't fix anything, as it was, but it helped us to take the fear and to manage the fear. It helps us to maintain connection with people on a different level and with our kids, you know, that kind of thing. That's what he talked about some and how he and his kids had to deal with some what was going on with the, you know, his wife and their mom with, yeah,

Deb Krier 9:57

you know that that would have been so hard because. Like you said that the angel the ages were pretty wide. You had little little ones that just didn't know what was going on. And then you've got the older kids that are really scared you want to and so how do you explain it to them in a way that allows them to understand age appropriately, but not scare them half to death.

Yeah, I think. And this fear thing is a real thing, because one of the things that Jeff again says is subject effect of jokes don't make brain surgery less scary. They make the waiting room less lonely. I love that. I just think that's a good perspective on things that, you know, and humor, of course, is one of the things that kind of breaks down some barriers. We can have a laugh and that that kind of a thing, and, and there's some absurdity the whole thing too. I was able to read and some do some Jeannie gaffing and wrote a book about this whole process, about, you know life gives you, what do you do when life gives you pairs? I think you've resourced about that a little bit, and have some experience more so than me about this. So tell me about that title. A little bit about what you learned about her and

about what she's all about. Well, she seems, she seems like somebody that would be fun to get to know. But yeah, the pear because, of course, we've all heard, you know, life gives you lemons, right, right? And the pair reference is the fact that they told them, You know, Jim and Jeannie, that the tumor was the size of a pear, you know, and, and, and, of course, Jim then goes on to joke about, you know, sometimes they, they refer to it as, you know, a sports analogy, you know, the size of a ball the size of a tennis ball. And, but they looked at him, and, you know, he's not the most felt guy in the world. They knew they needed to use the analogy of, you know, it's, it's this, you know, of a fruit, you know, it's the size of a pear. And, and I was thinking about that, I thought, you know, how many times do they say, yeah, the tumor was five millimeters. I don't know how big that is, but if you tell me the size of a grape, you know, then I'm getting, oh, okay, I understand that. And so, you know, he refers to it as the fact that doctors have to dumb it down. I really don't think that. I think they just need to use terminology that we can understand. And sometimes they forget that, you know, and and so, but, but, yeah, you know, life gave her a pair literally in her head,

and then she had to cope with it again. He, he says it's some some things to affect. It's an odd descriptor which kind of points to the absurdity of this whole right situation, you know, and to diffuse a little bit of the terror and the horror of what's going on, and and Jim and Jeannie, for that matter, both kind of use that angle to help to diffuse some of the horror of it. And I just thought, you know, in her book, and we, we hope to, somewhere down the line, be able to talk to her on our podcast here about, she talks about in her book, and Jim does too, about how their community surrounded them in this whole process. Some, some of it was that your church and their faith community was also their community, and it was also their comedy community, their committee the entertainment world came to them and was a part of their whole process here as well. And I think that tells us, wherever we got some connections, we need to make it. No one reach out to people or let them reach out to us and take our community, the community connection there,

right? You know. And, and I think, and Jim refers to that in some of his his other stuff, where he talks about the fact that it was hard for him to ask for help, yes, you know. And, and I think that is so very true for, you know, whether you're the caregiver or the patient, you know, we don't want to say, hey, I need help. I mean, that's just not what we do. And you know, it really is, is something that we need to get better at, because people do want to help us, even if it's just, you know, sending a funny joke, or, you know, a funny text message, or, you know, run into the grocery store going with you to treatment, whatever it is people want to help, but we have to ask for that help,

yeah, or at least be open to it. And sometimes we have to, when people offer help, we have to, right, give people some framework on how they can be helpful. And just, we've talked about this before the the ministry of presence, just being present and being laughed with someone, you know that that kind of thing, and they, you know, I really like how Jim and his last night, we in his comedy, said to he talked to people about the absurdity of life, and he talks about, you know, how his eating and his health absurdities. And he talks about, now, he, he talks a little bit about the cat. The church, or some absurd things about that. But he was asked to be a to serve communion, and he didn't feel qualified to do that. He had a service, and was kind of put on the lot, put on the put on the spot, a little bit to help serve communion. And that was

going up for communion, and his Jim Gaffigan, who's going, I would just laughing, right? Well, you know, I would expect him to be funny and to make a joke as as he served, right? Well, he

said something, the effect of it, this is, and he had to wear the white, a white robe with this kind of thing and, but he was saying, how some people, somebody says, aren't you the Hot Pockets guy or something like, oh, well, just funny stuff, and he and he also the absurdity of how he when he was basically a teetotaler when his kids were growing up, and now he owns this piece of a bourbon company, and he's considered a bourbon connoisseur, and this kind of thing, and and just that was part of his deal. But the absurdity is the point I want to make about how there's absurdity in life. And cancer is one of those things that can kind of bring that off the absurdity. I just want to say it was just really kind of delightful to see somebody like Jim Gaffigan in person. And now, you know, real guy, you know, he's a guy, basically, you know, just a normal guy. You wouldn't mind hanging out and just being with and being buddies with and that kind of thing. And and he dealt with some real life stuff, you know, he and his wife and their kids did real life. So I remember during the covid period, I happened to watch a lot of the YouTube show a lot, which was, you know, he couldn't go and do shows. So he his shows were around his he had like a daily show for some time around the dinner table. And they were having a family life, family life the family life, and that kind of thing. So I just remember that all being very relatable. And I think it's important, as we talk about how we cope with hope and humor, with something that is devastating, like cancer, that we try to find ways to make it this new normal, to make it help us. We have to function with it, you know, like he talks about the invisible aftermath, as this whole process here of being okay is a part of the, you know, part of the whole process here being okay is one thing, is the public, one thing in the inner life, but it's, you know, he one of the things he said, sometimes people think the credits Roll after surgery, recovery is a sequel that takes longer and no one sees. So just any thoughts or comments you have as we talk about this ongoing process of healing and wholeness, right?

Well, it's definitely ongoing, and I it's been curious to me, and I've probably done the same thing. Well, you're done with treatment, so everything's back to normal, right? No, you know. And in fact, I had somebody ask me, you know, several times, well, you're done. Does that mean everything? And it's not, you know, because you do have After Effects, you know, of a variety of things, both physical and mental. Plus, you're always kind of thinking it could come back.

Well, Deb, one of the things that has been an ongoing part of our conversation, we've heard the can to cancer comedy podcast, is a discussion about the importance of caregivers, and I just think that's evident in this conversation we're having here today about Jim and Jeannie Gaffigan and how kind of the comedy world, the humor, has kind of put a framework and maybe a bit of a spotlight on that, but how important that is, the role the caregivers role in as much as when Jeannie caffigan had her brain cancer issues, Jim Gaffigan, busy guy on the road with comedy shows, had to change his you know, life had to change for them, and it does for all of us. And one things he said out there was interesting. You're on the sidelines, right, and you're just your cheerleader. You're a well wishing, terrified cheerleader. You can do it, you say, but I don't know what I do if I don't have you with me. So I just thought that was warm and inviting, but also a little bit humorous as well. But the role of caregivers. What any thoughts about that?

Oh, you know, I think that we take our caregivers for granted. You know, we forget that we wouldn't be able to do it if we didn't have our caregivers. And so I always tell people that, you know, the caregivers are actually our superheroes, right? Because they've really got to hold it together. Not only are they taking on everything that we did, you know, whatever that is, but they're doing their own stuff, and they're having to be strong not let us know how afraid they are. And I think that's probably, you know, definitely, one of those unsung hero type of things. Heck,

you think it's part about gaining appreciation for people on the roles that they play in this I know Jim has talked a lot about his admiration for his wife, Jeannie, and she talks about that in her book as well. He says something to the fact you could Chris Jim gathering much more in the spotlight than she was, although she certainly is a writer and a. Comedian, her own right, and a producer, and does a lot of the background things in his shows. But he talks about people would come up to him and say, Come up to me. They'd be like, Oh, it's so amazing how you're doing this for a wife. And I would say, for Jim's, I'm doing nothing. I'm doing what any decent husband would do my wife. My wife is the one who went through the brain surgery. She's the hero. I'm just a guy bringing the Gatorade. And, you know, it's funny, and it's, it's great, but, man, this was what we're talking about here. Deb is about doing real life, isn't it? It's about doing real life and having some, having some humor to it, and putting some perspective, because it's all absurdity, you

know? Oh yeah, I Yeah. The whole thing is, I mean, when you look back at it later, you're like, seriously,

they talk about one of the things that in the hospital, we you know, in the hospital setting, you know, when you're in and Jeannie, you spent extended stays in the hospital. I know this, but Jeannie was in the hospital for an extended stay, and she's got tubes, get only eating through the tubes and so on. And yet, every meal the hospital staff would come in, well, do you want to choose salisbury steak or whatever it would be, and she couldn't have any of it, and they would say, Well, what's you know, Jim would think, you know, what's the point here, the absurdity dog, but how there is some like a psychological test or something? I know you can't eat Mrs. Gaffing, but if you could, would it be, would you have? What would you have? So there's a lot of absurdity we have to deal with when you go through this process, your world is turned upside down. When you get cancer. You got to deal with hospital systems. You got to deal with family and friends in a whole different manner. But my golly, if you can have some humor with it and that that helps you, helps you cope as well. I

think, oh yeah, oh yeah. You know, it was funny the one time when I was in the hospital for seven weeks, you know, I had an infection that was very contagious. And so it meant that if it came into my room, it could not go back out and do all of that. And so, you know, like they they would bring in protein drinks, but they were clear. And I tried one of them and went so brought in three every single day, and we started making a pyramid of them in the window, right? And I keep telling them, You understand I'm not going to drink these. They taste horrible. And they said, Yeah, but it's our order that we're supposed to bring them in. And I thought, Okay, that's a waste, but, you know, and you know, like other things that were coming in, like, you know, they need an inch of tape, but they bring in the entire roll, right? And then it would have to stay. And so a lot of things went into my mother's purse, really, you know, and, and, but, yeah, like, funny thing, like, I got home, I have no idea how this happened. I have the bedspread from the hospital. But, yeah, you do you, you have to find ways to laugh at at, as you said, the true absurdity of it,

yeah, that's and that's part of the deal. Is the some of the absurdity doesn't stop. You know, in the case, you have had a whatever, 10 plus your journey, in your cancer journey, I've had three plus we've talked. And then Jim and Jeannie 2017 So that's eight plus that they had in their journey. And you do the other things in life. You got to continue on with your career. You his case, you your case, my mind continue on with her career and her aspirations that way you in his case, raising kids and that kind of thing, and myself, myself dealing with my own adult children, grandchildren, all that kind of stuff. Family life, you know, you lost your mother a year or two ago. You got to deal with life anyhow. And it's a long play. It's the long play here, right? But, my goodness, if you allow the absurdity to get you down, you're going to have tough

Yeah, you know. And I think it just shows that cancer doesn't stop us. We have to keep going. You know, even if it's just the What am I going to have for lunch today type of thing, or you're, whatever it is, we just keep going, Yeah,

well, I think we can learn some good things from Jim and Jeannie gaff again. I really my Deb and my wife, and I really enjoyed going to his concert last night, and I just enjoy. It just good to have a good laugh in whatever setting you're in. Makes you feel better. It makes you feel more alive. One of the jokes he he one of the comedy bits he did last night was about, how about how the cycle people go through when they get ready to go to a comedy show? He's like, hey, this sounds like something exciting to do. But do Am I really too tired to go? Am I really It's Sunday night, I gotta go to work tomorrow morning. Do I have to put shoes on? Put, you know, I got all that stuff, the things everybody goes through, including himself, he's talking about, but, but how, once you do it, you're glad, you're glad that you do it, yeah, and I think that's, that's and that's kind of like going through the long haul. And I think that's what we want to do, say to our cancer and comedy community. You. It's a long haul, but you can do it. And we're here with you, right? We're here with you.

Yes, we are here to support you, and we're going to support you with another joke. We're going to have another one of Dr Brad's bad jokes of the day.